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Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#881

Post by arjie »

sp332 wrote: post #547
Borogove wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were there actually threats? I just googled "Brendan Eich threat" and didn't see anything relevant.

Yeah, Mozilla employees have also been threatened. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7525657

Death threats are terrible, frankly, but I've received death threats on the Internet for saying things about a video game. I hope he reports these incidents to the police because they are serious and the people involved should learn that threatening people with death is not something we allow in a civilized society. Perhaps I should have done the same. It has become far too acceptable to threaten people with death.

Also, your link does not say that Mr. Eich received death threats, though other Mozilla employees do report receiving such threats.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#882

Post by phaus »

rglullis wrote: post #744
phaus wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there are people who simply have hangups about the word "marriage" vs "civil unions." And this 'hangup' is simply idiotic. Christians that speak of 'civil unions' are trying to hold homosexuals' rights hostage so they can pretend that they have carved out a small victory. Christianity invented neither the concept nor the terminology for marriage. Most of us at HN rave all day long about how stupid it is when a compa…

And you're pinning this on Christians, which is also idiotic. First, I could introduce you to more than a handful of non-christians that do not support gay marriage. Second, take a look at other countries, specially theocracies, see how they treat gays.

>And you're pinning this on Christians, which is also idiotic.

I'm not placing the blame on all Christians, just the ones that happen to be opposed to gay marriage in general, or opposed to calling gay unions 'marriage.' I said as much in my previous statement.

>First, I could introduce you to more than a handful of non-Christians that do not support gay marriage.

This is actually very interesting to me. What are their reasons for holding such a view? Perhaps there is a good reason that I haven't considered. I'd love to hear it.

>Second, take a look at other countries, specially theocracies, see how they treat gays.

This isn't really a productive thing to say. Right now there are anti-Christian genocides going on in some parts of the world. Using your own logic, I could simply respond to every single grievance that Christians might have with life in the United States by saying "Christians don't have it that bad. Look at how they are treated in some other countries!"

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#883

Post by tn13 »

This is bad. Not just for Mozilla and tech community but also for LGBT community.

LGBT community's witch hunt reflects less on Eich but more on the LGBR community who will now be viewed as "risky recruits".

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#885

Post by michaelbuddy »

Aqueous wrote: post #869
dopamean wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely reasonable for gay employees to be concerned. As CEO of a company guides company policy about a lot of things that have nothing to do with writing code such as health benefits.

The link between any particular issue and what Eich's day-to-day responsibility would have been can be made as tenuously as we want. I could argue six-degrees-of-separation-style that every belief he held is relevant to his position. The basic point remains: we shouldn't be punishing people for holding beliefs that we disagree with, or coerce them into renouncing their disagreement in order to remain in our good grac…

I'm not sure that punishing is the right word here. people who did what they did, whether it be his board leaving, or people uninstalling firefox,or op-ed letters or forum comments. All that is not punishment, that is nobody was deprived of anything. Negative public sentiment is a tough thing. But I think that it actually represents democracy quite well. Democracy can do the morally wrong thing, it can keep a minority enslaved for example.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#886

Post by hippoman »

dopamean wrote: post #131
DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

Except if who they love is a child, or a relative, or an animal, or not their spouse, or a member of another race, or an abused wife, or ... I'm 90% agreeing with you, but most people who claim to agree with you are actually only including a very narrow set of people and still want to treat other groups worse just because of who they love. It should really be based on whether they do harm to others or not. Anything else is simply prejudice.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#887

Post by gms »

For those who supported this, I am curious for your answers to these questions:

1) Should Mozilla deny employment to programmers who are against gay marriage? Like your average programmer from Arab and Muslim countries.

2) If said programmer is allowed to be employed by Mozilla, are they also allowed to be promoted sometime after being hired?

3) If they are allowed to be promoted, what level should be the limit of promotion? Since obviously you disagree with them being CEO.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#888

Post by piyush_soni »

tdicola wrote: post #587
DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I don't agree that he was bullied out of his position. He held a belief that wasn't in line with what the Mozilla organization believes is in their best interests. The most logical thing would be for him to not represent the company as the CEO anymore. It's no different than if he believed Firefox should be a closed source shrink-wrapped product or other view that is contrary to Mozilla's mission. edit: The statement…

Again, views of an individual don't necessarily have to match the view of an organization. That's why they have a separate mission statement for an organization. Otherwise you'd just pick up the mission of any one of the employees. This is ridiculous to force him to step down by causing public humiliation.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#889

Post by phaus »

cookiecaper wrote: post #730
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Support for Prop 8 has a huge age gradient, as does anti-homosexuality in general. Support for Prop 8 falls by about 0.75% per year Ages 18-24 voted overwhelmingly against it. 65+ voted overwhelmingly for it. Old people hate gays. Young people don't. Support for Prop 8 among young people in the SF Bay Area is negligible. These are the people Eich was supposed to lead as CEO of Mozilla. You can't lead people who think…

The problem is that support for Prop 8 has been misrepresented as "hate" of gays, and that gullible young people have been tricked to support the gay agenda in the first place, and also to believe anyone who disagrees with that agenda is a "reprehensible bigot". If "gay rights" are really so self-evident, let's confront the haters and explain in a clear, concise manner why their beliefs are invalid. The thing is that…

>The problem is that support for Prop 8 has been misrepresented as "hate" of gays.

I agree that many of the Christians that support Prop 8 don't know that they hate homosexuals, but the act of supporting Prop 8 is a hateful act. Whether they realize it or not, they are actively attempting to prevent their fellow Americans from being able to live as equals in our society.

>If "gay rights" are really so self-evident, let's confront the haters and explain in a clear, concise manner why their beliefs are invalid.

When it comes to deep-rooted beliefs, whether they are religious or not, most people aren't going to change their minds. Yes, reasonable people do disagree with one another, but not every disagreement involves two reasonable people.

I've nearly always been an atheist, but when I was younger I was highly opposed to the concept of homosexuality. However, when I actually started to think about it, I couldn't find a single, reasonable argument for homosexuality being immoral. I challenge you or anyone else who feels up to it to present a logical, non-religious argument that illustrates why homosexuality is immoral. I'm pretty sure it can't be done.

Just to clarify, no reasonable person would consider the lack of child-producing capabilities as a valid argument. Its perfectly accepted among the overwhelming majority of Christians and non-Christians alike for a sexually active couple to refrain from having children, so it can't reasonably be considered an issue of morality.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#890

Post by camus2 »

DatBear wrote: post #631
dopamean wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

I keep hearing people saying that gay marriage is more than just a political view, but so is every other political view. Don't support welfare? You're against poor people. Support welfare? You're against the working man. You're pro-choice? You're against babies. You're pro-life? You're against women. Pretty much every political stance can be viewed in the same fashion as people are viewing Eich's. The thing is, Eich…

Don't support welfare? You're against poor people. Support welfare? You're against the working man. You're pro-choice? You're against babies. You're pro-life? You're against women

your black or white stance is a logical fallacy.

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