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The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

techtrenches.dev

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Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#881

Post by WalterBright »

danmaz74 wrote: post #833
WalterBright wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Law of Supply and Demand is in play, and it means a company cannot dictate prices, wages, or working conditions in a free market economy. Rising productivity would have reduced the average work week regardless. If you still aren't convinced, consider that the benefits package routinely offered to employees is worth around 40% of their pay.

Human societies aren't governed by simple, divine Laws. "Free market economy", based on rational actors, is an abstraction, an idealized model which is useful to understand some mechanisms, but it's far - VERY far - from being a complete model of any real society. At some point, trying to explain everything with the simple rules of that abstraction becomes an ideology just like Communism, which tries to do the same w…

The difference between free market theory and communist theory is free market countries are far, far more prosperous than communist ones.

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#882

Post by mewpmewp2 »

Jtarii wrote: post #718
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we talking about observational ability, creativity, accuracy of communication or grammar here? There's many more ways to evaluate a writer skill in terms of what they are doing vs what is coding. Coding can be creative, but in most cases you are not evaluating coding as writing, unless it's possibly technical writing, which is still different compared to coding.

Sure, you may argue that you are becomming a better editor or project manager but your skill in the craft of programming is decaying if you are not actively typing lines of code into a computer. You are trading one skill set for another.

I don't know, I'm still seeing all the diffs and thinking - ah interesting it did it that way, I would have done it like this or that, so I would just rather say it even widens my perspective on how to code since I see so much compared to what I used to do myself. Sometimes it's better, sometimes I feel I would have done it other ways, etc. But all the diffs flying in terminal still keep me engaged, right?

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#883

Post by ivan_gammel »

rglover wrote: post #727
ivan_gammel wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is possible on a corporate track. Ability to build frameworks and tools do qualify a person as at least a solid mid-level professional, not having corporate experience and associated skills can be a pretty big gap in their CV.

Possibilities are not results.

That’s quite obvious, ontologically speaking.

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#884

Post by lesostep »

WalterBright wrote: post #805
AngryData wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got some Soviet Union produced wrenches and drill from my great grandfather and East Germany made drill bits from an auction despite nobody in my family living outside the US in 120 years. No it isn't common, but I wouldn't expect the Soviet Union's biggest rival to be importing many of their products to start with, so the fact I possess them at all is decent evidence of their significant production volume.

But no cars, washing machines, microwaves, electronics, furniture, apparel, and on and on. Kinda sad for the size of the country. I bought some Soviet stuff after the fall of the USSR, because it was unique and interesting. One item was a telescope, one was a brand new rotary dial telephone manufactured in the 1950s, and one was a mechanical clock reputed to be from a submarine. I'm only sad that I abandoned my phone…

>> no cars

actually there was car export. Google "britain lada". I also remember some south american countries having cars from USSR. Cars were mostly exported to countries that didn't have car production.

>> electronics, furniture, apparel

There was a lot of trade going on, but in most countries local electronics and apparel was the better option.

You have to understand, the economy wasn't that global at the time. A lot of countries had american knick-knacks mostly because american soldiers brought it in and exchange it for local knick-knacks.

Most of the global trade was for materials.

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#885

Post by Meirambek_VIDI »

solid_fuel wrote: post #829
Meirambek_VIDI wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, agreed - short-term incentives seem to drive a lot of this. Do you think tools can help, or is it mostly cultural?

You can't fix a cultural problem with tooling. I don't understand why silicon valley hasn't taken this lesson to heart yet.

[dead]

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#886

Post by orthecreedence »

wolvesechoes wrote: post #860
orthecreedence wrote: post #781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it did.

How have you measured it?

I spend a week hand-generating charts and graphs detailing my caloric intake vs creative output in case I needed to convince someone online that my side quest was a success. Are you stupid?

I measured it in time and personal energy. I spend time working on something creative as opposed to working on something procedural. If I'd had to write the macros by hand, it would have sucked a lot of joy out of the project and would have delayed me probably much longer than it would have just to write the macros.

Your line of questioning is obnoxious and indicative that your original suspicions are false, yet you're too pigheaded to just let it go and admit that you are wrong.

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#887

Post by don_esteban »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #867
don_esteban wrote: post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, no. Both are problem. And it is not pro-speech at all, it is pro-$$$. It is a standard practice to drown the unwanted speech in the noise of the paid-for 'speech'. Nothing about pro-speech for ordinary people there. Furthermore, Citizen's United makes it harder to make any necessary legislative changes. Including the anti-trust. Focusing only on one issue while leaving the other heads of the hydra intact just…

> And it is not pro-speech at all, it is pro-$$$. Suppose you don't own a major media outlet or social media company and you have something to say that the major media outlets and social media companies don't like. What are your options for getting more than six people to hear what you have to say if you're not allowed to spend money? > It is a standard practice to drown the unwanted speech in the noise of the paid-f…

Cirizens United has everything to say about anti-trust. Big companies that would be subject to anti-trust use their $$$ to buy politicians to squash any anti-trust legislation.

Isn't it absolutely obvious? Are you paid bot?

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#888

Post by Kamq »

ranger_danger wrote: post #750
Kamq wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is BS. A shareholder lawsuit against the CEO/board/executives for investing in the employees in the hope of long term profits would never succeed. The idea of a fiduciary duty doesn't mean that. It means the CEO can't take actions that intentionally hurt the company. And there are very few large public companies with active enough investors to oust a CEO over this, and even fewer that have both active and activi…

There can be other valid perspectives than your own, especially when one makes sweeping black-and-white generalizations without any evidence. > the CEO can't take actions that intentionally hurt the company And who gets to define what "hurt" means?

The government.

You'd have to prove that the CEO knew that it would hurt the company and still did it or that it's so ridiculously negligent that any sane person should have known.

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#889

Post by gopher_space »

t-3 wrote: post #797
gopher_space wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Developing education and training pipelines is wasting money if the skills you need are constantly changing! There is plenty of "slack" in the workforce so this works just fine in most cases - somebody will learn what they need to get paid. There are very few fields where qualified worker shortages are a real problem. Here's the problem with your reasoning. This paragraph is simply wrong, with each sentence being u…

> there isn't any slack in the workforce, and qualified worker shortages are being reported in every trade across the board Labor force participation is ~62%, far lower than historical peaks. I don't buy it.

Every employer had the same "let's hire seniors someone else trained" idea at the same time. This isn't just a tech phenomenon, the "qualified worker" pipeline was turned off and then ripped out of every industry.
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