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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#881

Post by techpression »

fortyseven wrote: post #877
techpression wrote: post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also very hard to make them resistant to water and dust, I really like that I can wash my iPhone in the sink and don’t have to worry about it getting wet in general. This is a lot harder to achieve with battery doors, especially if they need to be as big as a phone back.

You... wash your phone in the sink?

Easiest way to get rid of dust and other buildup, free flowing water for a few seconds and done. Compared to the Middle Ages of using tooth picks or similar to clean the ports and speakers it’s much nicer. And no, I don’t have my phone in any weird places, just my pocket.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#882

Post by plst »

loeber wrote: post #814
vrganj wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having cheap plastic junk that ends up as toxic landfill is a pro, not a con. "Cheap" isn't enough, especially if it's cheap through externalizing cost.

Say that to the people who can't afford them!

They then end up paying more by buying five awful low-range phones that each last a year instead of one mid-range that will last more. No, I would rather everyone paid more for a phone. I find it hard to believe that the difference in price will make it impossible for them to buy it, if so, that's a separate problem. This + mandated software support may finally make it viable to just buy a used phone, too.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#884

Post by hequmania »

This is great news. Every once in a while something good comes out of EU. Now of course, our US friends are telling myriads of reasons why this is obviously stupid and unnecessary. But it's not. Letting users actually maintain their devices is only smart.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#885

Post by chimprich »

bko wrote: post #660
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

The fact that pretty much no phones have a replaceable battery says something. And it doesn't mean that all manufacturers are somehow colluding with each. The market is very competitive and pretty much every manufacturer decided the trade offs are not worth the benefit. If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would. But everyone came to the conclusion that the tra…

> If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would.

It's an interesting theory. I'm going to call it capitalist-optimism. It's roughly oppositional to Doctorow's theory of enshittification.

> but everyone came to the conclusion that the trade off is just not worth it

The trade-off here being profit margin versus customer convenience. They've calculated that they'd make more cash with non-changeable batteries (e.g. by encouraging more buying of new devices rather than changing batteries) would make them more cash than selling a phone with a replaceable battery. And they might well be right, but that doesn't make it a good thing for civilisation.

> And now the EU, in its infinite wisdom has decided it knows whats best.

Before the EU mandated USB-c chargers pretty much every phone had their own charger. It was awful. You couldn't easily borrow a charger because everyone had a different configuration.

Now things are far better. It turned out that the EU did know best. It maybe wasn't best for phone manufacturers in the short term, but it was better for customers.

> why don't they just fund a company to create such a phone? Why doesn't anyone?

Is this a serious question? In order to create a competitor to the major smartphone operators you'd need a huge amount of capital. I don't think I could convince a venture capitalist or bank to give me that kind of investment just to start a company selling a phone with a replaceable battery.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#886

Post by ahf8Aithaex7Nai »

Ray20 wrote: post #823
ahf8Aithaex7Nai wrote: post #806

> Why isn't there any significant demand for replaceable batteries? Most consumers are like pigs who simply eat whatever the market throws into their trough, because ultimately they have better things to do than to get deeply involved in every purchasing decision. > If replaceable batteries were better, they would already be available. Developments like those in the smartphone market involve complex path dependencies…

> That’s why you can’t simply assume that competition will lead to the product offerings converging on the best product. You also can't simply assume that an existing solution on the market is not the best already. I mean, who told us that smartphones with user-replaceable batteries are better than smartphones that are 0.5 mm thinner because their batteries are non-replaceable? The same people who want to ban encrypt…

> You also can't simply assume that an existing solution on the market is not the best already.

What kind of rash response is that? No one here is making a blanket claim that the market solution is categorically suboptimal.

> I mean, who told us that smartphones with user-replaceable batteries are better...

Let me repeat: you have to FIRST define what you mean by “better” and then ask that question. I want a phone with a removable battery, and it’s immediately clear to me that making this a requirement is a measure that removes a lower limit on the devices’ lifespan.

> Regulatory processes are shaped by the same incentives as market ones.

That’s just another one of those market-driven circular arguments. There’s no alternative to market logic, because in the end, everything follows the same incentives. You should be able to see that this is nonsense just by driving down a public street or standing under a streetlight at night.

> opposite direction from "help the market"

I would rephrase that as: “help the market move in a desired direction for the benefit of people” and I do believe that regulation can achieve exactly that.

> It's simply better than when a regulatory body implements its "quirky, special requests" at the expense of everyone else.

At whose expense, then? People who are upset that batteries are replaceable again? People who now find their smartphones a few millimeters too thick or a few grams too heavy? Are these people also upset about safety and environmental standards for cars because they make cars a little heavier, more expensive, or more complex?

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#887

Post by ssl-3 »

deaux wrote: post #831
chromacity wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phones don't have removable batteries mostly because of the desire to make the device as thin as possible. The battery is just a delicate, flexible pouch that can easily be damaged and catch fire if removed from the phone and carried around. To make it safe, you'd need to add a hard shell, which would probably make the device 2 mm thicker or so. As to why we want to make phones as thin as possible... I don't know, bu…

> Phones don't have removable batteries mostly because of the desire to make the device as thin as possible. The battery is just a delicate, flexible pouch that can easily be damaged and catch fire if removed from the phone and carried around. To make it safe, you'd need to add a hard shell, which would probably make the device 2 mm thicker or so. Fairphone 6, recent with replaceable battery: 9.6 mm Galaxy S5, has a…

Galaxy S5 had a tool-free replaceable 2800mAh battery, with hard sides for protection. NFC. Wireless charging (as a user-installed option -- again, no tools, but did add some thickness and weight). USB 3 with OTG. HDMI over MHL. An excellent camera for the time. An OLED screen. A headphone jack. An SD card. A sim card. An IR blaster for changing TV channels at the pub. (I'm probably missing some functions here.)

The bootloader was unlocked in many regions (and became unlockable in all regions). Custom roms were abundant.

And it was waterproof.

(In the subsequent decade+, I have heard it said over and over again that this is an impossible combination of traits. And yet, there was a time when we had all that.)

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#888

Post by streetfighter64 »

Replacing the battery on my iphone takes 30 minutes and the only tools needed are a couple of screwdrivers and a new display adhesive. In exchange, the phone is a lot more waterproof. For me, it's a good tradeoff.

What's next? Mandating that the screens be "replaceable" as well? Having used a fairphone before, I can tell from experience that easily replaceable parts are more prone to breaking from dust and moisture etc.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#889

Post by Alpha3031 »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #747
johanyc wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's planned obsolescence through price. Your wife paid >50% of the phone's value just to replace the battery. Many people won't think that's worth it. It could have been a $30 user replaceable battery.

Or she spent 7% of the purchase price of a new device to defer requiring to upgrade for another 3 years. $100 is worth it, but you can get a good discount by going to that one mall kiosk instead of the Apple Store.

> you can get a good discount by going to that one mall kiosk instead of the Apple Store.

Apple actively impeded third-party repair shops though. Oregon had to outlaw parts pairing for them to change that practice.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#890

Post by theshrike79 »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #725
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

I don't think this is where peak battery tech ends up. At current capacities, batteries are becoming genuinely dangerous, and faster charging only amplifies the risk. Charging high-capacity cells outside a temperature-controlled charger is risky, and even reputable chargers shouldn't be left unattended — many workplaces ban it outright (it only takes one fire to make that policy). Phone batteries are the worst of it:…

It's the exact same as with EVs.

We COULD have an EV with a 200kWh battery that can go 1000km++ on a charge in -30C weather. But nobody really needs that beyond a few outliers.

What we NEED is ubiquitous and easy charging.

Going for a burger, it'll take 20 minutes for you to order, eat and walk out. On a 300kW charger in the parking lot you can in theory get up to 100kWh charged. Or less with a slower one. Even plugging in to a 50kW charger for 20 minutes is enough.

Same with shopping etc, giving "everyone" a 2kW charger in a parking lot is table stakes in 2026.

And with phones: just have the possilibity of charging everywhere. I have 13€ Ikea Qi2 ("Magsafe") compatible chargers[0] everywhere in the house. Anyone can just slap their phone on one and it'll charge a bit.

There's no reason why we can't have more of those in public - we did try when wireless charging first appeared, but it was a whole chicken and egg thing. Nobody had phones that supported it and finding the exact 1x1cm spot where the phone charges was a pain. Qi2 with the alignment magnets takes that problem away completely.

[0] https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/vaestmaerke-wireless-charging-s...

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