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Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

bbc.com

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Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#881

Post by lucketone »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #798
conductr wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe as a US citizen I have no say in how they make these decisions so this thought exercise is pointless. We all structure our governments differently and so compete globally with differing rules, I only care about how we do it here in the US. At times, what we do may be in reaction to others, but how we do it needs to be agreed upon here at home and for that we have a Constitution that gives this power to cong…

The entire point of the WTO was that countries can cooperate globally to reduce tariffs and other trade barriers, so it does matter what you think of other countries' decisions.

I propose an idea that complete lack of protectionism (subsidies, tariffs, quotas) should not be the goal.

If we (countries) all are fully open, then we are fully globalised, and likely overall prices are lowest. (that is good)

But such system is fragile and very “shockable”, it entirely depends on stable shipping numbers and stable inter country agreements, both of which can be easily sabotaged (various motivations and agendas; just in 6 years: covid, Trump, Yemen Houthies)

Not implementable, but fun idea: protectionism based on distance, even within a country. E.g. supermarket must buy 10% of its apples from within 100km, 20% from within 1000km, 40% from within 10000km. (It does have numerous problems, feel free to identify them in comments)

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#882

Post by padjo »

bdelmas wrote: post #872

People may or may not have voted for Trump but I find this extremely disturbing. Unless it’s illegal when did the DOJ become involved in politics and policies? They are more and more stepping outside of their role. Setting tarifs is one of the tools and role of the executive branch. This will limit even more what a president can and cannot do.

The DOJ? What are you talking about? This is the judicial branch, you know one of the three coequal branches of government. It just ruled that the power to set tariffs is not in fact a power of the executive branch.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#883

Post by AngryData »

bsder wrote: post #683
omnimus wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you agree with countries doing the opposite to the US? When for example US tech is better than the local alternative but the countries create unfair advantages to the local alternatives?

> Do you agree with countries doing the opposite to the US? Yes, please! Maximally efficient is minimally robust. We need robustness in the global economy more than some megajillionaire needs another half cent per customer in profit. In addition, we need competition in a lot of areas where we have complete consolidation right now. The only way to get that is to give some protection to the little guys while they grow.

I agree that we do need robustness in our production and economies, and a lot of it. But I don't really believe that most tariffs, especially current ones, will ensure that in any way.

Generally if you want stable and reliable local production of something, you subsidize that production or industry. You guarantee a certain amount of product will be bought/paid for even if a foreign supplier can or is willing to undercut that cost. That is why we have a large agricultural surplus in basically every western country, subsidized crops means there is money on the table for somebody to be in that industry which ensures surplus production even when other places are offering cheap food to trade.

Those can also be misapplied and corrupted, but it is still better than nothing at all or not extremely well planned and implemented tariffs which can sometimes hurt local production of other things still.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#885

Post by conductr »

not_a_bot_4sho wrote: post #69
xnx wrote: post #57

Am I understanding this right? 1) US customer pays huge import tax on imported goods in the form of higher prices. 2) Seller sends the collected tax to the US government 3) US government will refund all/most of that tax back to the seller after this ruling 4) Seller gets to keep the returned tax money as pure profit (no refund to customer)

There have been no decisions about refunds. The court avoided addressing that. That topic will surely go back to the courts, kicking and screaming

Personally think it should not get refunded. There’s no sane way to get it back to its source. And no one group should be making profit from it. Best if it stays with the government like a federal forfeiture so in theory we all benefit from it as citizens , maybe it goes against the national debt or lessens our deficit next year.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#886

Post by frm88 »

epolanski wrote: post #627

So, are they gonna be reversed tomorrow? What happens?

They will, but Trump signed a new round of global 10% tariffs into being which hs a limited duration of 150 day until Congress has to ratify it. I couldn't find out whether there's a cool down on that, so that he could maybe wait day 151 and then start all over or if it's a one time measure.

The new 10% will be effect I've from tuesday and he expects all deals he made with several countries to just continue without protest.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/trump-imposes-10-tar...

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#887

Post by conductr »

lostlogin wrote: post #837
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some additional context to your note: Howard Lutnick is Trump's Secretary of the Treasury. And also was Epstein's literal next-door neighbor.

Amazing. Did he get the role because of his skillset, of because of his skill at keeping his mouth shut?

His brother-in-law is a prison guard. Just kidding but would anyone be surprised?

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#888

Post by Broken_Hippo »

sowbug wrote: post #80
xnx wrote: post #57

Am I understanding this right? 1) US customer pays huge import tax on imported goods in the form of higher prices. 2) Seller sends the collected tax to the US government 3) US government will refund all/most of that tax back to the seller after this ruling 4) Seller gets to keep the returned tax money as pure profit (no refund to customer)

Or maybe this is used to justify a new emergency federal law that all purchases must be reported on your tax return, just in case the government ever needs to refund any illegally collected import taxes. I think I'm kidding, but I'm not really sure anymore.

Indiana has sometimes required that for decades, though I think they finally adjusted the law a little after online purchases became popular.

Indiana charges sales tax like a lot of states, but only on things sold in the state or from a company located in the state. If you ordered something from California or overseas, no sales tax was charged. The law required you to track these purchases and report it on your tax return so you can pay the required sales tax.

That said, enforcement wasn't good and I don't know a single person that actually did so. A common tax fraud for the average person, I guess.

And honestly, I think any emergency federal law would be similar: It wouldn't be for refunds for the masses, but for surveillance and extortion.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#889

Post by almosthere »

kyoji wrote: post #712
almosthere wrote: post #708

That's unfortunate - it was mostly a tax on the rich!

lol, I would love to hear how you arrived at this conclusion.

It all depends on what you buy. Mostly the wealthy are buying things these days. Everyone else is buying US grown food.

Re: Trump's global tariffs struck down by US Supreme Court

#890

Post by bdelmas »

padjo wrote: post #882
bdelmas wrote: post #872

People may or may not have voted for Trump but I find this extremely disturbing. Unless it’s illegal when did the DOJ become involved in politics and policies? They are more and more stepping outside of their role. Setting tarifs is one of the tools and role of the executive branch. This will limit even more what a president can and cannot do.

The DOJ? What are you talking about? This is the judicial branch, you know one of the three coequal branches of government. It just ruled that the power to set tariffs is not in fact a power of the executive branch.

I am not sure what you are not understanding since you know there are 3 branches.

The judicial has no say on this. The judicial branch is more and more pushing political agenda when it’s not their role. Tariffs were always part of the executive branch, it’s by itself an executive action in the spirit of the law. Still if the US decides that it should not be part of the executive branch anymore, it is not to the judicial branch to decide! But it is up to the legislative branch.

This is what I am saying. Plus the fact that the US is stripping more and more power from a branch called the "executive branch" making it less and less what it is supposed to do.

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