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GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

blog.tomaszdunia.pl

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Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#881

Post by Andromxda »

antonyh wrote: post #404
shevy-java wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This should be illegal that the government forces people into apps controlled by private, commercial entities. I call such a government corrupt. Here in central Europe I can still access the bank website fine without smartphone. I need a physical device to yield a TAN though, but I can access and do online transactions fine. So I think something is wrong with the spanish government. People need to protest.

I switched bank in the UK due to enforced app use, from Starling to Nationwide. They use a card reader to issue codes, so I can still use the web. I see this as a much of a must-have as physical bank branches with real cashier services.

Starling Bank has been officially supporting GrapheneOS using Android's hardware attestation API (not the Play Integrity API) since 2024.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#882

Post by Andromxda »

aembleton wrote: post #873
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Starling has always been app only?

You can bank via the website here: https://app.starlingbank.com/login Might be more limited than the app though.

Starling Bank has been officially supporting GrapheneOS using Android's hardware attestation API (not the Play Integrity API) since 2024.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#883

Post by palata »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #861
palata wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, if we want to be strictly correct then AOSP is not Android, but rather the name of a Google project that distributes the source code of Android Thank you. I do find it ironic that you could not understand what I mean given that you're the kind of people who say "GNU/Linux".

This means GOS is not AOSP either, because it's not that particular project. It takes the Android source produced by AOSP and builds on it. But what you agreed to is just pointless pedantry that leads directly to this outcome, as everyone uses "AOSP" to refer to what AOSP produces (which is a particular flavor of Android that serves as a base to build other flavors on). It stops being ironic when you take some time t…

> This means GOS is not AOSP either, because it's not that particular project.

Exactly, GrapheneOS is not AOSP. It is AOSP-based.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#884

Post by GoblinSlayer »

abustamam wrote: post #868
ajnin wrote: post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess what they're saying is that, for example, a password of length 12 has about 71 bits of entropy if using an alphabet of 62 characters, and 76 bits with an alphabet of 82 characters. But if you only increase the length by 1 you already get 77 bits with 62 characters only. So length beats adding special chars in that sense.

Gotcha, I guess my question is, why not both? Is it the requirement of special chars over a min-length password that is in question here? Like the system is like "minimum 8 char password but also three special chars, ancient heiroglyphs, and the blood of your firstborn child" when you can omit the special chars and just have min 16 char password for the same security benefit?

Not very meaningful to create yourself a problem to heroically overcome it later. You can already create enough problems unintentionally.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#885

Post by greenie_beans »

lawn wrote: post #516
greenie_beans wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wish my yubikey would work with bitwarden

My Yubikey works with bitwarden on GrapheneOS using NFC.

ooo you must be special. which app store did you use to download bitwarden?

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#886

Post by akshitgaur2005 »

subscribed wrote: post #654
budududuroiu wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a new GrapheneOS user and stopped using Uber as altogether. Taxis aren't that bad where I'm at, and cheaper than Uber

I wish I could stop using them for these rare occasions I need a transport. Taxi across the town is £20, Uber usually 5-10. There are no other providers. Taxi from my airport (some 15 miles away) is £60-80, Uber usually £30-ish. Public transportation (2 trains + 2 buses) over £50. I wish I had an option.

I get public transport being more "difficult" than uber, but more expensive too? Where are you from if you don't mind me asking?

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#887

Post by antonyh »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #556
antonyh wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched bank in the UK due to enforced app use, from Starling to Nationwide. They use a card reader to issue codes, so I can still use the web. I see this as a much of a must-have as physical bank branches with real cashier services.

But Starling has always been app only?

It's not possible to login to the web-based banking without the app. It's a hard requirement to access the account.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#888

Post by NewsaHackO »

ryandrake wrote: post #792
simoncion wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your employer required the use of a smartphone for essential components of your job and provided you with a smartphone and cellular data plan, would you not use that smartphone for those components of your job? I'd not use employer- or government-furnished equipment for tasks that the equipment wasn't provided to complete, but I'd definitely use it for those tasks.

Exactly. Bank needs me to have an official FruitPhone to access my account? Fine, send me the phone, I'll turn it on when I need to bank, and at all other times it sits powered-off in a drawer. Same for the government-supplied DroidPhone I need to access my Social Security statements (or whatever). Turn on, do my business, turn off.

Would this apply to giving you a phone plan, internet plan, computer, paper, pen, electricity, etc., because all of those are necessary to do online banking or access school chats as well?

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#889

Post by strcat »

lanfeust6 wrote: post #789
strcat wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairphone is far from meeting the update and security requirements for GrapheneOS. It isn't a viable platform for a hardened OS to use and isn't likely to ever become one due to security being very far from a priority for them. GrapheneOS has a partnership with one of the largest Android OEMs. They're going to be announcing it in March 2026. Devices meeting all of the update and security requirements from them with o…

That OEM has yet to be named. It would be nice to see it happen, but it's yet to materialize. > It isn't a viable platform for a hardened OS Breaking from google/Apple doesn't in itself require a hardened OS, as we see in LineageOS.

Our OEM partner is announcing the partnership in March 2026. It's an active partnership with work under way for devices launching in 2027.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#890

Post by strcat »

linux_modder wrote: post #778
strcat wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can bypass Play Store restrictions on app installs by using Aurora Store. There's a high chance your banking app can be used but it may require toggling the per-app exploit protection compatibility mode. Most banking apps work on GrapheneOS. X is one of extremely few apps disallowing using a non-Google-certified OS but it only partially disallows it in their store listing which can be worked around and for regula…

Aurora store is a horrible placeabo. Not only is it using other folks anonymized accounts, which violates several privacy laws internationally it also still has the Google libraries in their apks like everything else. You are not gaining any privacy or security using Aurora Store or F Droid for that matter but are indeed opening up more attack surface in the supply chain that ends at your device.

GrapheneOS strongly recommends against F-Droid because it has major security deficiencies and adds an unnecessary middleman. Our recommendation is using developer builds of apps. F-Droid doesn't review the code for app updates but rather automatically fetches and builds it. They make questionable downstream changes introducing security vulnerabilities. The Accrescent app store provides developer builds of apps signed by the developers for everything included which can be verified. Play Store provides developer builds but only a subset of older apps are still signed by developers since they phased it out and heavily recommend switching to Play Signing.

Aurora Store is not recommended by GrapheneOS in general. Our recommendation is to use the sandboxed Play Store for installing apps when using sandboxed Google Play in a profile. We recommend only using Aurora Store for bypassing restrictions set by app developers on where their apps can be installed. That's what was said above. It would be better if the Play Store didn't do this.

Contrary to what you're saying, Android apps do not include Google Play libraries by default. They're only included if developers explicitly go out of the way to include them in order to use Google service APIs. Android SDK, etc. is open source as part of AOSP and both the OS and AndroidX libraries are open source too. The proprietary Play libraries are clearly marked as such via being in the GMS namespace.

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