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EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

environment.ec.europa.eu

881–890 of 894 posts

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#881

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Same as when the EU puts a ton of restrictions on farmers within the EU countries -- Co2, fertiliser requirements, etc. -- making food so expensive to produce many go out of business and the remainder become practically luxury food, and then countries just end up having to import food from countries outside the EU _without_ those restrictions, simply offloading the environmental burden on "some other countries somewh…

EU is a net food exporter and the only agricultural products the EU isn't self-sufficient in are animal feed, sugar, and tropical fruits & vegetables. So, no, EU farmers are struggling at the moment because they aren't as competitive on the global markets as they used to. Not because Europeans aren't buying their food anymore.

Now why do you think they’re not competitive? Think about this more than one layer.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because apparel is specifically the consumer industry Because it is very visible to low information voters who are also red/green voters.

Are you a high-information voter? If so, could you please provide information about any consumer industry that comes even close to the apparel industry in terms of a) ubiquity and market scale and b) destruction of unsold but undamaged items while still producing equally functional equivalents for market? Is there such a thing as fast-cutlery? Or fast-furniture? Maybe fast-book or fast-vehicle? Fast-whitegood perhaps…

> Are you a high-information voter?

Yes I am.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#883

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a terrible idea because approximately 90% of the cost of clothing is not in producing it, but in the supply chain - keeping it in stock, transporting it to and from warehouses, the manpower needed to organize and sorting and inspect it. So by saving the 10% of the cost of the clothing, you end up wasting way more in labor and transport and inventory costs. All of which ends up way worse for the environment than…

The clothing that ends up in the landfill also needed to be transported, stored and organized. So if you don't produce those clothes to begin with you not only save the pollution and resource usage that would come from producing it, but also the pollution and resource usage from transporting, etc. It may _cost_ the company more, but only producing what can be sold will be strictly less polluting.

There's no way to perfectly forecast demand; all things equal I'd prefer that companies overproduce and we live in an age of plenty with a bit of waste (which companies are already incentivized to avoid), rather than face shortages in goods.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#884

I think what bugs me about EU legislation like this is how micro-targeted it is. Why apparel specifically? If waste and a disregard for the finite-ness of natural resources is the problem, why not impose a blanket, Pigovian-style tax on all extracted resources? I got the same feeling when they mandated USB-C on Apple devices. If the problem of waste were tackled categorically, then the state wouldn’t need to get invo…

There's a bilingual relationship between the responsibilities of the state and the rights of the consumer. That point you describe - where they'll tackle the root problem - isn't coming. In truth, these are feel good measures anyway - naive attempts to fix a downstream problem that won't pan out. That's my opinion, anyway.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#885

I'm reading the comments and I get confused. I kinda think this is a good idea and it is not like the government is purely making it a 3rd party problem only. This might make production more complicated for a while, but nowadays it is much easier to predict demand and produce quicker in smaller batches. In the 90s you might need change a whole factory setting for every single piece of fabric but nowadays it is that m…

Here's how this law is actually going to work. Instead of destroying the unsold clothes in Europe, manufacturers are going to sell them to "resale" companies in countries with little respect for the rule of law, mostly in Africa or Asia. Those companies will then destroy those clothes, reporting them as sold to consumers. So instead of destroying those clothes in Europe, we'll just add an unnecessary shipping step to…

> Instead of destroying the unsold clothes in Europe,

they are already being sent to Chile or Ghana to be destroyed there.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#886

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"So instead of destroying those clothes in Europe, we'll just add an unnecessary shipping step to the process, producing tons of unnecessary CO2." > The world being as it is you're likely correct and your cynicism makes sense, but I'd like to think somehow you're wrong. I don't see any cynicism here, only pure realism. The real question is why EU law tries to create a utopia on paper while ignoring real-world situati…

I see this response as the exact same one about tax cheating and how the rich will just move away or be better at cheating taxes. Did we forget how to discover and punish bad actors? Do you think we should just do nothing and let casual bad behavior go because some people are gonna be abusive? No. I refuse to accept that. It is not your false dichotomy. If people abuse the system, fine and punish them. More than they…

> Do you think we should just do nothing and let casual bad behavior go because some people are gonna be abusive? No. I refuse to accept that.

I'm with you, and I also give a clear: No.

My criticism is about how it is handled. If you introduce a new law and already know there is an immediate workaround that makes the situation even worse than before, then you should close that loophole in the first place. If you can't close the loophole because of strong resistance from lobbyists, then it's obvious this is just about "good intentions on paper" so the EU can say they've done something.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#887

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That was because you could make money by turning old things into new things. Not so with garbage disposal, a service for which you almost always have to pay.

> Not so with garbage disposal There is already a healthy trade for second-hand clothing to 3rd world countries (see pics of kids with " World Champions 2022"). The prices will be better for brand new clothes. The gray distribution channels already exist and will readily pay for new clothes - at steep discounts, but pay for them nonetheless.

Describing it as a market is not entirely correct. The clothes these people wear are garbage. As a species, we produce more clothes than we could ever wear. I am reminded of a story of a charity that accepted clothing donations for the victims of an American hurricane, and immediately had to stop because their warehouse filled up. Many clothes are not even worn once before they're thrown away, and one of the cheaper ways to dispose of them is dumping them on 3rd worlders. It's quite dystopic really the underclasses who dig through our trash.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#888

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Absolutely poverty is just a distribution problem. But ultimately somebody has to step up to do the distribution to solve it. It doesn’t really matter who. But given that the problem still exists, there’s not enough people stepping up in the right places.

The answer is simple: despite so much money given and forgiven, and people going over all the time to build toilets and basic human-scale improvements, most countries with real deprivation have a massive corruption problem, mainly culturally induced, that stops real improvement. Saying "it's not people stepping up" elides the cultural issue.

There is poverty in 100% of countries. I live in one of the richest places in the world and I can go outside and find people struggling to meet their basic clothing needs.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#889
post #817

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Show me one person in prison for this

Here’s the first hit on Google: https://www.justice.gov/usao-nm/pr/us-attorneys-office-secur...

Counterfeits isn't selling used/defective as new.

Re: EU bans the destruction of unsold apparel, clothing, accessories and footwear

#890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

more market economics framing of life, as if numerous very smart people haven't already tried to make this paradigm work for society, and failed.

The funny thing is that textbook economics has all of the answers about why laissez-faire market economics doesn't work as a foundation for economic policy. It's almost as if it's never been about making good policy and always about doing whatever is best for big businesses and the small number of wealthy people who stand to gain the most from minimizing consumer surplus.

totally. In fact the current monopoly-coddling dispensation is antithetical to market economics, which clearly espouses real competition. It's kinda been coopted and hijacked.
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