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The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

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Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#881

Post by blurbleblurble »

mlrtime wrote: post #879
unethical_ban wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Minneapolis and other cities, you do have protests, you have the people following ICE, and it's a valid discussion to have that without the protests and the "mostly peaceful" resistance from Minnesotans is helping the nation see what criminals ICE people are, and what an awful thing they're doing to the country. Mass resistance movements tend to come at unpredictable moments. The killing or particularly well docum…

>The citizens of Minneapolis could probably take out a hundred ICE agents a day, but now we're in a civil war because the next steps are insurrection act, That is not a civil war.

Just because historians haven't yet given the beast a name, it acts and growls just like like exactly what it is, and "civil war" is exactly what some members of the federal administration want, as you might read in their brazen proclamations about re-interpreting the constitution along a hundred dimensions at once.

https://www.project2025.observer/en

The local and federal authorities are at a complete standoff right now. When's the last time you recall a local government essentially asking the court for permission to deploy its national guard to enforce a restraining order against the federal government? All while said federal government was openly conducting sloppy pseudo-urban-warfare in broad daylight?

I urge you to pay attention.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#882

Post by Ray20 »

sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #82
RHSeeger wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would start with this, because it's a flat out lie > Everyone is ok targeting te immigrant populations because they are "illegal" or live in a gray area of legality. People have been complaining about the attack on immigrants for a good, long while. And the complaining has been getting louder, more frequent, and from more people with every day. When they kidnapped workers and suddenly the price of everything went u…

They should have said "enough are ok" instead of "everyone is ok". Unfortunately, there are still enough people who are fine with the Trump / Miller / Noem / Bovino approach to immigration enforcement, or they're not impacted personally enough to make them speak or act. I hope the cartoon villain responses coming from the administration when they're challenged on any of this will get more people to stand up against i…

> I hope the cartoon villain responses coming from the administration when they're challenged on any of this will get more people to stand up against it all.

I don't think we should expect people to stand up against all of this. Even if most of them don't like it, let's be honest, it's not a dealbreaker for them. Especially if the next election other party puts forward some deliberately hypocritical, racist, out-of-touch elitist like Kamala Harris.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#883

Post by AndreyK1984 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #859
krapp wrote: post #854

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ability to be convinced by arguments, or refusal thereof, is not an objective measure of the likelihood of future events. If anyone had described to you the timeline of this administration from 2024 to now, prior to it happening, you probably would have dismissed it as ridiculous. Yet here we are, this is already normal. The way it plays out is they have two more years to lay groundwork and entrench their power,…

> Your ability to be convinced by arguments, or refusal thereof, is not an objective measure of the likelihood of future events. Okay but that just makes both of us crazy speculators. > If anyone had described to you the timeline of this administration from 2024 to now I would have said it was a plausible but terrible misuse of the executive branch's authority that I hoped not to see. After the first administration,…

Thank you all for detailed answers! As I see, if all goes well the problem will be solved in two years (more or less).

Again, no comments regarding if it is good to hunt "illegal aliens" and kick them away - US citizens must decide this themselves.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#884

Post by mlrtime »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #881
mlrtime wrote: post #879

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The citizens of Minneapolis could probably take out a hundred ICE agents a day, but now we're in a civil war because the next steps are insurrection act, That is not a civil war.

Just because historians haven't yet given the beast a name, it acts and growls just like like exactly what it is, and "civil war" is exactly what some members of the federal administration want, as you might read in their brazen proclamations about re-interpreting the constitution along a hundred dimensions at once. https://www.project2025.observer/en The local and federal authorities are at a complete standoff right…

I'm paying attention, just not buying into administration wanting a civil war.

Won't happen.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#885

Post by Ray20 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #448
SilverElfin wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing this idea that boiling over lets them double down, but at the same time, it is not acceptable to let them keep doing what they do. Once the government starts using physical violence against the people and openly violating constitutional law, there is no choice, but to push back. But that pushback can look different. Personally, I think that needs to be a massive general strike across every major city.

> Personally, I think that needs to be a massive general strike across every major city. Yes, this tends to be really effective, especially when you're fighting the upper-class, which is more or less what's happening here as far as I can tell. Get all the cleaners, cooks, hotel workers and other "servants" to strike, pool up to fund a salary-light for them while they strike, and you'll see changes quickly as the uppe…

> Get all the cleaners, cooks, hotel workers and other "servants" to strike, pool up to fund a salary-light for them while they strike

You mean to try to get them all and find out they're not really against what's happening? There's a reason why socialists, originally fighters for workers' dictatorship, have almost entirely switched to supporting minorities and not workers.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#886

Post by wujf »

flipgimble wrote: post #732
rybosworld wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are Americans so passive? I think it's important to realize how divided the U.S. is right now. Half the country is in favor of what ICE is doing in some form or another. Some people on the right are denouncing the _way_ ICE is accomplishing this. But they are far from outraged. The other half of the country is as dumbfounded/shocked as the rest of the world. This isn't like the French revolution where a majorit…

I know what you mean about the country being split politically, but I think using the 50% number is a misleading illusion. Only 31.8% of the voting-age population voted for Trump, so 68% did not vote for these policies. I get that we often assume that the non-voting population is as evenly split in their support as those who voted during the election. But I think that is going to be wildly off the mark as well. Why?…

In other words, 68% voting-age population are OK with the orange-man sitting on the throne

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#887

Post by embedding-shape »

rootusrootus wrote: post #816
jenadine wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but we still have some real elections coming up, Unless the president declares a permanent temporary state of emergency for whatever reason that would prevent such elections.

There is no precedent for this. The executive lacks the authority. It would require Congress to enact a law, and this is easier said than done. The states run elections, and while the feds have some input on how elections for federal office are conducted, it is quite limited. The vast majority of the population is relying on these protections holding.

> There is no precedent for this. The executive lacks the authority. It would require Congress to enact a law,

Does this actually matter in practice? It seems like the administration has done a bunch of things that normally requires Congress to do something, yet they were able to and I don't see anyone getting arrested. The executive have lacked the authority for lots of things, yet it doesn't seem to stop them.

I'm not saying you're wrong, in theory. But in practice it seems like those things aren't actually stopping anyone, at least not yet.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#888

Post by nerdjon »

Peaches4Rent wrote: post #788
nerdjon wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We get absolutely nowhere if we just blindly blame trump for everything. All it does is give the other side ammunication to paint us as just “anti trump” when they can poke holes in our information. We have to be better than them. We have to have all of the information and actually inform people instead of the half and twisted “truths” that is all that ever spew from this administration. It doesn’t change or diminish…

You are a fool if you can't see what's right in front of your nose. Every single person I've talked to outside of the US sees that Trump is working towards a genocide. I'm very concerned about my family and friends over in the US. But I do agree that all the other administrations have paved the way

Not entirely sure where you get that I am not seeing what is happening.

All I am saying is that we need to be better than them and not twisting information to fit what we want to say.

That doesn’t remove or diminish any criticism of trump and this administration but let’s actually fight lies with facts instead of stooping to their level.

It would not be a good look at all (hypothetically since I don’t know) if we go after Palentir for this app and its all trump this, trump that. And it comes to light that the contract started under Obama for example. That doesn’t mean we don’t criticize them, it doesn’t mean we don’t criticize trump, it doesn’t mean we don’t protest ICE. But it means that we don’t try to say that ALL of this is under trump.

We are constantly calling them out for lying, half truths, twisting truths, etc. We must be better than them or we look like hypocrites and all that does is make it harder to get people to actually come out and vote for our side when it matters.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#889

Post by RickJWagner »

foldr wrote: post #874
RickJWagner wrote: post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It is harmful to the cops ( some die ) and beneficial to the perps ( who do not fear being shot ).

You are conceding the point that it is not in fact normal in other parts of the world for the police to shoot the driver as a means of avoiding being hit by the car. Doing so does not even make sense from a practical point of view. The car will most likely keep coming towards you anyway. The incident you linked where the police officer sustained life threatening injuries (they didn’t die, as far as I can tell) seems…

The point is not to stop the car. The point is to stop the driver, because that person is obviously willing to kill someone using the car as a weapon. That person should be stopped ASAP.

The cited articles include charges of murder, highlighting that point.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#890

Post by sjsdaiuasgdia »

Ray20 wrote: post #882
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should have said "enough are ok" instead of "everyone is ok". Unfortunately, there are still enough people who are fine with the Trump / Miller / Noem / Bovino approach to immigration enforcement, or they're not impacted personally enough to make them speak or act. I hope the cartoon villain responses coming from the administration when they're challenged on any of this will get more people to stand up against i…

> I hope the cartoon villain responses coming from the administration when they're challenged on any of this will get more people to stand up against it all. I don't think we should expect people to stand up against all of this. Even if most of them don't like it, let's be honest, it's not a dealbreaker for them. Especially if the next election other party puts forward some deliberately hypocritical, racist, out-of-t…

> hypocritical, racist, out-of-touch elitist like Kamala Harris.

Gee I wonder what side of the political spectrum you align to...

I like rule of law and due process. I like the Constitution and its balance of powers. I think that a good chunk of Americans also like these things. I believe the current administration is acting in extremely contrary ways to those things. So yes, I expect more Americans to stand up and speak out.

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