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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be hard in some places, with especially toxic higher ups. A good start is pointing out the law a few times. If that doesn't get them to stop, what you can do is ask them to give you a signed piece of paper, where it says, that against your objection and warning about this being illegal, they want you to still do that. Usually at that point they will find someone else, or stop trying to do it.

I agree with everything you say, except > Usually at that point they will find someone else is not really something a lot of people can afford to risk

This is why am glad to live in a country with comparatively good employee protections. In other countries, where people can be fired at will, this might be more problematic. But at least in this country, it would be a very clear cut case, if your employer asks you to do something illegal, that they will not be able to legally fire you. Of course you might have to go to court to get your right.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#882

I'm not understanding, as an European who's been part of multiple startups how's that supposed to boost growth. There's literally 0 startups I've been part of where data protection laws or even the infamous cookie banners have been anywhere near relevant (unless your business was literally profiling). In fact the actors that most opposed those laws have always been non Europeans. Sure, there is an attached cost in ha…

I agree with you partially. My hot take is that this is a signal for Trump. We play nice with you, you play nice with us. Big tech is well connected to the current US administration so if the EU were to make theses changes, then they will appease big tech (a little bit) and therefore by extension Trump. I (like you) don't think that these regulations are the reason the EU doesn't have home grown hyper-scalers a la AW…

Few things.

1. We really have no realistic threat on our borders. Russia can't even cope with Ukraine alone in conventional warfare. Who do we have to defend from? And there are way bigger militaries than Ukraine in EU alone, let alone as a coalition, such as Poland.

2. Would like to remind you that article 5 has only been invoked by US and we lost many lives on something that wasn't even relevant to us, let alone the other wars in africa or central asia that we joined. So far, it's been Italian and Polish blood falling to comply with our North American ally, it hasn't been the opposite case for decades.

3. I think the European commission is simply corrupted, and when it comes to this data stuff, please notice how many dozens times Thorn and Palantir and many other US security companies have lobbied EU commission members, and those are just the registered meetings, you don't need to record phone calls or out-of-office encounters:

https://transparency-register.europa.eu/search-register-or-u...

I'm quite convinced Ursula von Der Leyen is corrupt and is selling out Europe and keeps engaging in anti European policies.

4. EU would be fine, if it was able to pursue a coherent foreign policy. Instead you have 20+ countries where the occasional Hungary can veto anything. It should be given more power on many fronts. We shouldn't have 20+ privacy agencies, 20+ ways to register a company, 20+ different legislations on this and that.

5. There are politicians with the right vision, such as Macron, but most politicians have to live election by election, so it's very hard to pursue long term strategies. To be fair though, US is showing the same symptoms with one executive undoing what the previous has done from a bit.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#883
Now we are fucked too as EU citizens. I hate AI more and more! MY DATA IS MINE. I hate the future. I just hope this gets sacked by the parliament or the judges. If not I need to find ways to keep as much personal data to myself as possible. The internet has become a very hostile environment for real humans and we need to learn to tread very carefully and avoid giving anything to the data poachers. My life is not a resource like crude oil ffs!

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#884

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest hurdle Europe has to face is the cultural shift away from the post-soviet era of "Don't take work too seriously, enjoy life". There is now a full generation of Europeans who grew up in with this mentality, looking down on Americans for their ridiculous work ethic and comparatively meager benefits. But it's not sustainable, and the strain is already becoming obvious. Young Europeans will have to work longe…

The data [0] begs to differ: in richer countries workers and fewer hours. The gap not shown here is working hours per capita (instead of worker), but I couldn’t find that data quickly. Also, even if your claim were true, I wonder if joining the rate race of working harder is worth it. [0] https://ourworldindata.org/rich-poor-working-hours

Joining the rat race isn't worth it, in the near-term, which is why the threat is existential. Europe has been sleeping on it's laurels for 30 years now, and the signs are clear; borderline stagnating economies, low working hours, generous benefits, and most importantly still relying on the exact same industries as 30 years ago. Europe totally missed out on the tech boom, and is now also missing out on the AI boom. And Europeans response has largely been "Whats the issue, we can just buy it from the Americans/Chinese?".

Russsia invading Ukraine, and the US providing the majority of the weapons and cash to stave off Putin should have been a gut-punch wake up call that Europe is in an extremely vulnerable position, and needs to get to work building their own modern tech, their own defense, and their own industry.

Failure to do those things will lead to Europe balkanizing as the economic situation gets worse under the weight of an aging population and shrinking economic output. Young Europeans think they cracked the code of comfortable living, but really they are just in a post-cold war golden period. Very similar to the post-WII era American baby boomers enjoyed (except they had lots of children).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_a...

Look at the bottom of the list and then go look at their growth.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#885

I'm not understanding, as an European who's been part of multiple startups how's that supposed to boost growth. There's literally 0 startups I've been part of where data protection laws or even the infamous cookie banners have been anywhere near relevant (unless your business was literally profiling). In fact the actors that most opposed those laws have always been non Europeans. Sure, there is an attached cost in ha…

Sure but the laws are probably relevant for the startups you _haven’t_ been a part of. The ones that never got started. It’s funny you mention a lack of entrepreneurial spirit but then dismiss something that’s clearly a factor (not saying it’s the main factor but obviously it has some effect). I have some side projects that I don’t really care about making money from but some people do use and it’s easier for me to j…

Can you share the projects? In most cases it is very, very easy to comply with the *"random laws" (not that GDPR is much different from California's CPRA. Are you blocking Californian users too?)

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been a change in the community here over the last decade, we've lost a lot of the hacker spirit and have a larger proportion of "chancers", people who are only in tech to "get rich quick". The legacy of ZIRP combined with The Social Network marketing.

The "hacker spirit" is dying. Corporations and governments are locking computers down. Secure boot. Hardware remote attestation. Think you can have control by installing your own software? Your device is now banned from everything. We eill be ostracized from digital society. Marginalized. Reduced to second class citizens, if that. Everything the word "hacker" ever stood for is being destroyed. I predict one day we'll…

>The "hacker spirit" is dying

This is the number one issue in computing today. Everybodys running around trying to get rich building shitty extensions and frameworks without looking at the bigger picture. We need collective action. Imagine a movement where everybody becomes millitant about adblockers. Like install them on every computer and deflate the advertising industry. Smarter people than me can probably think of better ideas

Right now its death by 1000 cuts. There needs to be a big change or we could lose everything in just 20-30 years in my opinion

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#887

I love how you can think about any of these ideas in a really basic way like a 5 year old and you'll know intuitively that it'll all fail, particularly if you invert it: for example: - bureaucracy creates less bureaucracy - price controls create more supply - adding more rules creates more freedom - government is good at understanding technology - the more people you have the better your decisions will be - the furth…

Let me introduce you to the concept of "Negative Liberty": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_liberty

I quite like not having my personal data stolen by foreign megacorps for nefarious purposes. In that, I am freer than Americans thanks to Europeans regulations.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#888

I'm not understanding, as an European who's been part of multiple startups how's that supposed to boost growth. There's literally 0 startups I've been part of where data protection laws or even the infamous cookie banners have been anywhere near relevant (unless your business was literally profiling). In fact the actors that most opposed those laws have always been non Europeans. Sure, there is an attached cost in ha…

> an European European starts with a vowel in spelling, but actually phonerically begins with a consonant, /j/, so it doesn't trigger the "an" thing. Similarly some spellings start with a consonant but have vowels (like acronyms, "an SSRI", the name of the letter S, "ess", begins with a vowel) More to the point I agree with what you're saying. This seems like lazy attribution of cause that is so common in American bu…

Maybe they say it as an "ew" diphthong instead? As an ESL, that makes sense to me.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#889

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you partially. My hot take is that this is a signal for Trump. We play nice with you, you play nice with us. Big tech is well connected to the current US administration so if the EU were to make theses changes, then they will appease big tech (a little bit) and therefore by extension Trump. I (like you) don't think that these regulations are the reason the EU doesn't have home grown hyper-scalers a la AW…

Few things. 1. We really have no realistic threat on our borders. Russia can't even cope with Ukraine alone in conventional warfare. Who do we have to defend from? And there are way bigger militaries than Ukraine in EU alone, let alone as a coalition, such as Poland. 2. Would like to remind you that article 5 has only been invoked by US and we lost many lives on something that wasn't even relevant to us, let alone th…

Are you sure you meant to respond to me? I agreed with you on most of what you said regarding the regulations but just in case let me respond to your points:

> We really have no realistic threat on our borders. Russia can't even cope with Ukraine alone in conventional warfare. Who do we have to defend from? And there are way bigger militaries than Ukraine in EU alone, let alone as a coalition, such as Poland.

Is that a counterpoint to my NATO comment? If so I agree, I think that the EU countries should exit NATO and form their own military alliance. However it is very clear that investing in military capabilities is not the priority of the EU countries as only a few of them managed to spend the required amount each year as per the NATO treaties. Most likely such alliance will be dead in the water.

> Would like to remind you that article 5 has only been invoked by US and we lost many lives on something that wasn't even relevant to us, let alone the other wars in africa or central asia that we joined. So far, it's been Italian and Polish blood falling to comply with our North American ally, it hasn't been the opposite case for decades.

Again I agree with you. I think that the US has caused much suffering by invading Irak and Afghanistan and then Libya (with the help of other countries), thereby causing the refuge crisis and then leaving the EU countries alone to deal with this problem.

> I think the European commission is simply corrupted, and when it comes to this data stuff, please notice how many dozens times Thorn and Palantir and many other US security companies have lobbied EU commission members, and those are just the registered meetings, you don't need to record phone calls or out-of-office encounters: https://transparency-register.europa.eu/search-register-or-u... I'm quite convinced Ursula von Der Leyen is corrupt and is selling out Europe and keeps engaging in anti European policies.

She was not elected to be a good politician.

She was a terrible politician in here home country. There was nothing to expect from her at any level and so far she has not disappointed. Her secret deal with Pfizer and her missing text messages are just the tip of the Iceberg.

> EU would be fine, if it was able to pursue a coherent foreign policy. Instead you have 20+ countries where the occasional Hungary can veto anything. It should be given more power on many fronts. We shouldn't have 20+ privacy agencies, 20+ ways to register a company, 20+ different legislations on this and that.

That is never going to be the case because all EU countries want different things and for very good reasons. They have different needs and different economies.

So the German government will keep selling out its EU "partners" as long as they can keep selling cars in the US. France or Italy would have done the same.

> There are politicians with the right vision, such as Macron, but most politicians have to live election by election, so it's very hard to pursue long term strategies. To be fair though, US is showing the same symptoms with one executive undoing what the previous has done from a bit.

I disagree with you on Macron. Macron has no vision besides a "more" federal Europe. The details are not very clear and his policies are constantly changing depending on his approval level in the polls. His promise when he was elected was that to put the far right out of business by the end of his presidency, the reality however is that the far right is now the biggest party in France and is in very strong position to win the 2027 election.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest hurdle Europe has to face is the cultural shift away from the post-soviet era of "Don't take work too seriously, enjoy life". There is now a full generation of Europeans who grew up in with this mentality, looking down on Americans for their ridiculous work ethic and comparatively meager benefits. But it's not sustainable, and the strain is already becoming obvious. Young Europeans will have to work longe…

The data [0] begs to differ: in richer countries workers and fewer hours. The gap not shown here is working hours per capita (instead of worker), but I couldn’t find that data quickly. Also, even if your claim were true, I wonder if joining the rate race of working harder is worth it. [0] https://ourworldindata.org/rich-poor-working-hours

I think your data agrees with OP, you're just misunderstanding it. Yes, richer countries work few hours and richer countries also see modest GDP growth.

Cambodia's GDP growth is over +5% YoY, whereas Switzerland (and the rest of Europe) has more modest GDP growth.

There is some "Work smart, not hard." facet to this, which requires an educated population.

The other fascet is developing countries exist in climates heavily impacted by global warming (look at flooding in VN or TH this year). They make 2 steps forward, and then 3 steps back when a monsoon takes out an entire town.

> Also, even if your claim were true, I wonder if joining the rate race of working harder is worth it.

Personally, employment makes my life interesting and rewarding. I love the puzzles (and compensation) that my employer provides. The rewards compound, but in career development and via investing the profits.

Unfortunately, I think the one area that isn't accounted for is child care. Societies (rich and poor) continue to extract time away from parenting, via cost of housing near job centers and dual-income families. Offering an extra month of vacation or 4-day work week isn't the same as 1 income household or the parents living 15 minutes from their job.

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