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PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

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Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#881

Post by trollbridge »

saagarjha wrote: post #653
xdennis wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> (2011: 1%), (2012: 7%), (2013: 15%), (2014/15: 33%), (2016: 40%). #pycon2016 > Increased diversity in communities usually comes from active outreach work. PyCon's talk selection process starts blinded. There is no world in which 40% of programmers are women. 1% in 2011 is also probably evidence of discrimination. But too few people are willing to admit that if 40% of the speakers are women that represents a drop i…

You know what encourages women to be programmers? Seeing women be programmers.

I didn't become a programmer because I saw other men being programmers. It was something I really saw anyone else doing.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#882

Post by saagarjha »

trollbridge wrote: post #881
saagarjha wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what encourages women to be programmers? Seeing women be programmers.

I didn't become a programmer because I saw other men being programmers. It was something I really saw anyone else doing.

Are you a woman?

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#883

Post by machomaster »

qcnguy wrote: post #665
VerminOctopus1 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is called a strawman argument and is functionally worthless for this discusson

Wrong fallacy. A strawman argument is where you claim someone else said something that they didn't, you put words in their mouth. hn_shill didn't do that. machomaster says it's reducto ad absurdum. It's not that either. There's nothing absurd about the proposal, it's exactly the same idea as many other DEI policies like female-only shortlists, which are found in politics or female only bonus/prize pools found everywh…

It is reducto ad absurdum, though. Because the effeciency of absurdity lies not in the universality of it (if the origin was 1 in absurdity, you would push to 11), but in the subjectivity. So that everyone could surprisingly understand how absurd the original explanation is, "this would be just absurd!". Objectively, it doesn't require to raise the antics.

Kinda like Hindus could ask beef-eating Westerners if they would eat a horse. Or pork vs. dogs. Or to suggest that we should reverse the situation and let sole parenting of children given to the same percentage of men as is currently given to women.

All these are objectively on the same level, but would be described as absurd suggestions with a huge list of explanations of why "you are absurd, they are a totally different thing".

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#885

Post by [deleted] »

ModernMech wrote: post #847
throwawaypath wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Disability accommodations are a cornerstone of DEI. You missed the memo, they're not pushing this narrative any longer. The poor attempt to launder DEI via the disabled is twisted and transparent. The ADA predates DEI by decades, and has broad support from both sides of the aisle.

I am not saying disability law originated in the DEI movement of today, I'm pointing at the through line between the passage of the ADA and the modern DEI movement. From the civil rights era in the 60s, to women's rights in the 70s, to the ADA in the 90s, to gay rights in the 00s, to DEI today. The principles behind disability accommodations -- access, fairness, inclusion -- are foundational to DEI as a broader movem…

[deleted]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#886

Post by throwawaypath »

ModernMech wrote: post #847
throwawaypath wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Disability accommodations are a cornerstone of DEI. You missed the memo, they're not pushing this narrative any longer. The poor attempt to launder DEI via the disabled is twisted and transparent. The ADA predates DEI by decades, and has broad support from both sides of the aisle.

I am not saying disability law originated in the DEI movement of today, I'm pointing at the through line between the passage of the ADA and the modern DEI movement. From the civil rights era in the 60s, to women's rights in the 70s, to the ADA in the 90s, to gay rights in the 00s, to DEI today. The principles behind disability accommodations -- access, fairness, inclusion -- are foundational to DEI as a broader movem…

>The principles behind disability accommodations -- access, fairness, inclusion -- are foundational to DEI as a broader movement.

No they're not. Fairness is antithetical to DEI.

>But DEI itself is about creating equitable access and participation for everyone.

DEI is specifically designed to exclude those who rank low on the oppression Olympics rankings, access and participation are antithetical to DEI.

>Notably, DEI also has been a driving force for veteran employment (having dedicated veteran hiring pipelines is absolutely DEI).

These existed before DEI.

>It's very common for people to do what you're doing now -- "All the accommodations I like and/or benefit me are sound law and not DEI; all the accommodations I don't like are DEI and must be outlawed"

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

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