Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wouldn't label this as "support for Israel"/"against Israel". One can support Israel without supporting Israel's current approach. Many within Israel are not happy with Netanyahu's methods, and presumably they are not against Israel. I understand that that's the current shorthand, but it seems inaccurate and unnecessarily polarizing to me.
This isn't right, though it can feel like an option when you are looking for a solution that doesn't make you feel bad. Zionism is the idea of colonial occupation. The internal logic will always end in ethnic cleansing. It did in 1948. It's doing it now. American Manifest Destiny had a similar function, and it also resulted in massive genocide for which we have not atoned. Zionism is done. A secular democratic state…
Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
#882Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
#883Every time I've looked into the arguments for this being a genocide, I saw, at best, a description of urban warfare. Maybe I am wrong. If anyone is still reading this thread, could you write what you believe will happen after Israel won the war?
Given the deliberate creation of unlivable conditions on the ground and the absence of any viable plan for restoring Palestinian life and sovereignty, the civilian population of Gaza faces two primary and foreseeable outcomes: Mass mortality from non-combat causes: The synergistic crisis of famine, disease, and healthcare collapse makes widespread death from starvation, dehydration, and preventable illness a mathemat…
Did we refuse to invade their cities in case the innocent nazi citizens got killed?
War is war. I don’t see a single person in that territory that opposes the war. They simply want the other side to surrender because they are losing a war they started.
Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
#884Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
#885The trouble is, what is the right medium or long term solution. If Israel militarily fails as a state, which seems to me to be an implicit aim of a significant number of anti-Israel folks, the results will make the current Gaza conflict look like a joke.
Short-term, Israel should have pumped the breaks on disproportionate response. Dahiya doctrine never worked, and now Hamas has successfully leveraged it to win (undue!) international credibility. If a policy of de-escalation can be honored, you can lay the groundwork for a medium/long term solution that respects all sovereign parties.
Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
#886Earlier quoted context omitted.
Flipping the U.S. really is the key to ending this conflict. The U.S. reliably uses its security council veto to nix any meaningful UN response and the U.S. remains, by far, the biggest supplier of arms to the IDF. If the US were to stop veto'ing everything and cut off the IDF's supply of, at least, some types of weapons, the new ground assault would likely end quickly. Unfortunately, that isn't likely to happen. Net…
There's definitely a generational gap going in the US. Support for Israel is not popular among the younger generation in the US, and there's a good deal of voters in their 20s and 30s for whom support for Israel a red line in candidates. But older generations tend to be staunchly in favor of Israel, and too much of the gerontocratic political class thinks that pro-Israel uber alles is the key to winning votes. It is…
Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
#887Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> that would end the instant they released the hostages and lay down their arms. Numerous Israeli government officials have said publicly that the current war is not going to end until Palestinians no longer live in Gaza.
Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
#888Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
#889[flagged]
That is literally not what genocide is, it's a legal definition not a creative writing exercise. 'The legal term “genocide” refers to certain acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. ' [1] Israel is functionally commiting genocide, after being an apartheid state for decades. Arguably their goal is ethnic cleansing, and mass murder is a means to th…
Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza
#890Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are aware that Shulamit Alloni was on the extreme left and was criticizing this supposed misuse of Antisemitism, this is not some playbook The american equivalent would be to quote Bernie Sanders saying "America is fascist" and then saying, see? therefore the USA system of government is fascism, even Congress agrees!
Not sure how that's the equivalent. Lets see if there is a pattern. Roger Waters criticizes Israel, Roger Waters is an antisemite. Tucker Carlson criticizes Israel, Tucker Carlson is an antisemite. Edward Said criticizes Israel, Edward Said is an antisemite. Even "legends" get called antisemites! [1] Hannah Einbinder criticizes Israel, Hannah Einbinder is an antisemite? Hmmm. According to Jerry Seinfeld, anyone who s…
Roger Waters is an antisemite.
Do people who have known Roger Waters his entire life think he is an antisemite because of his obsessive criticism of Israel, or because of all the other anti Jewish things he has said and done AND his singular obsession with Israel?
* https://variety.com/2023/music/news/roger-waters-antisemitic...
>In the 2023 documentary The Dark Side of Roger Waters, the >saxophonist Norbert Stachel recounts Waters refusing to eat >vegetarian >dishes in Lebanon, calling them “Jew food”. When >the musician explained >that most of his relatives had been >killed in the Holocaust, the singer did >a crude and offensive >impersonation of a Polish peasant woman, and said, >“Oh, I can >help you feel like you’re meeting your long-lost relatives. I >can introduce you to your dead grandmother.” > >Tellingly, Stachel also claimed to overhear Waters telling a >girlfriend that Judaism was not a race, saying, “They’re >white European men that grow beards and they practise the >religion Judaism, but they’re no different than me; they have >no difference in their background or their history or their >culture or anything.”
* https://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/artists/rogers-waters-anti...
I know less about Said.
He did write the forward to Shahak's Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years. The book is framed as an attack on Jewish fundamentalism.
Werner Cohn, Professor Emeritus at the University of British Colombia, writes: “He [Shahak] says (pp. 23-4) that "Jewish children are actually taught" to utter a ritual curse when passing a non-Jewish cemetery.[b] He also tells us (p. 34) that "both before and after a meal, a pious Jew ritually washes his hands....On one of these two occasions he is worshiping God... but on the other he is worshiping Satan..." I did take the trouble to question my orthodox rabbi nephew to find what might be behind such tall tales. He had no clue. If orthodox Jews were actually taught such hateful things, surely someone would have heard. Whom is Dr. Shahak kidding?”
Edward Said wrote the foreward to the second edition, calling Shahak “one of the most remarkable individuals in the contemporary Middle East.” Said writes that the book is “nothing less than a concise history of classic and modern Judaism, insofar as these are relevant to the understanding of modern Israel.”
At best Said endorses antisemites.
Tucker Carlson hosted Darryl Cooper, a podcaster known for promoting Holocaust revisionism and making historically inaccurate claims about World War II. He labeled Winston Churchill as the "chief villain" of the conflict. They perpetuated downplayed Nazi atrocities.
Sure seems antisemitic.