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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#881

Post by mixmastamyk »

cratermoon wrote: post #758
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

Remember those naive days when everyone was scared about Big Government running their lives? Remember how the Free Market™, unimpeded by government interference, was going to ensure our personal freedoms were never compromised? Good times.

Necessary but not sufficient.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#882

Post by mixmastamyk »

phowat wrote: post #711
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

Frankly I think it's a lost cause and sadly doesn't make sense to waste energy on it anymore. I eventually abandoned my de-googled phone exactly because I couldn't use my bank with it.

I don’t use a bank with a phone. What do you do with it?

(One exception, I used to scan checks five years ago, but thankfully that finally ended.)

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#883

Post by hollerith »

mike_hearn wrote: post #460
josephg wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents are getting old and they aren't tech savvy. The missing piece here is that I want my parents to have a computer they can safely do their banking on, without leaving them vulnerable to scams and viruses and the like. I like that they have iphones. Doing internet banking on their phone is safer than doing it on their desktop computer. Why is that? The reason is that the desktop PC security model is deeply fl…

> Any program I run is allowed to silently edit, delete or steal anything I own ... there's currently no desktop environment that provides that ability Putting aside the philosophical issues, that statement isn't true for a few years now. It's not well known, even in very technical circles like HN, but macOS actually sandboxes every app: • All apps from outside the app store are always sandboxed to a lesser degree, e…

>It's the only OS that has managed this transition to all-sandboxed-all-the-time.

Apps are all-sandboxed-all-the-time on iOS and Android, too; right?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#884

Post by hannofcart »

flomo wrote: post #185
echelon wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom > Privacy > Security Never give up your freedom. If you have to give up your privacy to ensure your freedom, so be it. If you have to give up your security to ensure your privacy, so be it. This goes for governments and phones.

Always fun to interact with some internet Thomas Jefferson giving freedom speeches from his mother's basement. Reality is that people pay a lot of money because they 'trust' Apple (and to a lesser extent Google), but Meta is the sleaziest one of them all. (And I don't use their shit either.) But people want Whatapp and Instagram, and so you are telling them now they have sell-out and go to the "Meta App Store" to tal…

We keep mocking and laughing at the "internet Thomas Jefferson"s of the world but they seem to be getting increasingly prescient about the dystopian world where we are giving bad actors disproportionate control over our lives on the pretext of keeping us or children safer.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#885

Post by cyanydeez »

kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

The only thing protecting you from this is a strong government.

Bur if you look around theres a lot of money going into defacing democracy and electing morons, by the same business forces.

You aint getting a fundamental freedom by individual contributors, the same way bitcoin is turning into a centralized scam bank.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#886

Post by nobody9999 »

amluto wrote: post #747
rkagerer wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add "can't participate in society without agreeing to user-hostile Terms of Service clauses, such as indemnities, behavior profiling, and opted-in marketing subscriptions." It's amazing where those dark patterns are cropping up (government services, SPCA, etc).

I sometimes contemplate that this sort of incidental ToS should be 100% unenforceable. Here’s what I mean: suppose I want to order a cup of coffee at a cafe. I’ve made a choice to go to that cafe, and it’s at least generally reasonable that the cafe and I should agree to some terms under which they sell me coffee, and those terms should be enforceable. But if the cafe requires me to use an app, and the app requires m…

>One way to address this might be to have a rule that third parties like Google cannot assert any sort of claim against an end user arising from that end user’s terms of service with the cafe.

Or just require retail businesses to accept cash. Which many jurisdictions have done.

Problem solved.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#887

Post by wilg »

adiabatichottub wrote: post #771
rhines wrote: post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've reached the point where people without devices or common online services are so rare that society no longer accommodates them. It's similar to how we need legislation to ensure that disabled people have accessible infrastructure, except I doubt there will ever be legislation mandating offline/off-app accessibility.

File it under faulty assumptions organizations make about their clients or customers. If you live in a rural area in the United States it is still quite possible to have: * No cellular service * No landline service * No postal delivery to your property, and a physical address that isn't in any database * No public utilities It can be very frustrating to deal with services that assume you have the ability to receive S…

I don't think its unreasonable for private companies not to bother to offer their services to these people. Why should they have to? Many services require nearby physical infrastructure. Electing to live in the woods is not really a disability. Plus you can just get internet out there if you want and thereby receive SMS.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#888

Post by danpalmer »

mordae wrote: post #402
danpalmer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies aren't obligated to support me doing this Where does one draw the line on support? If I jailbreak an iPhone, should I still get Apple customer support for the apps on it, even though they may have been manipulated by some aspect of the jailbreak? (Very real problem, easy to cause crashes in other apps when you mess around with root access) Should I still get a battery replacement within warranty from Appl…

Imagine Lenovo refusing to service your ThinkPad because you've compiled your own kernel. Charging IC has NTC thermistor and battery absolutely must withstand the system running on 100% and then some. As for battery lifetime, batteries are cheap, unless you glue them to an expensive assembly and force people to replace whole assembly as phone vendors do.

Laptop manufacturers are most definitely not designing their laptops to run at the top of the thermal envelope for 100% of the time, and honestly that's probably the right choice because no one does that – that's what you pay for when you buy high end servers, and the fact these corners are cut is why consumer hardware is so much cheaper.

If you run the software they provide and their guardrails aren't strict enough, that's clearly a warranty case. But if you modify the software to remove their guardrails, it feels reasonable that they can deny a warranty fix.

Overclocking is perhaps a clearer cut version of this – it's a "software change", but can affect the hardware lifespan.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#889

Post by akk0 »

asyx wrote: post #869
mothballed wrote: post #805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the judge will likely rule the app is bullshit, but in the meantime CPS will argue they need to go into your house, look to see if you have a dirty dish, or the wrong proportion of snacks to vegetables, or maybe take notice your child is playing independently outside while they come around. Then they will portray that in the most insane way possible, and since it is a civil and not criminal process their is no r…

Damn. When I had a child in Germany, our version of CPS came over and told me what fun things the city offers for children and asked me about my plans for day care and how I can get help to get a spot. I once called them because the day care lady of a friend‘s kid is a bit of an idiot and kinda scared us about mass closure of day care centers and it was probably the nicest interaction I’ve ever had with a government…

I wouldn't be so quick to equate differences in personal anecdotes with stark country-level differences (though it's plausible that everything is worse in America as usual)

I grew up in a low income neighborhood in the Netherlands and many times saw people be utterly terrified of CPS. In many cases these were households where outside help could've been really useful, but even in the worst cases where heavy CPS involvement was the only option (real "take the child away" cases), the child's situation often unfortunately hardly got better, just different. In less intense cases CPS involvement often just seemed to thrust a compliance burden on households without offering much real support, mostly just leaving people feeling guilty and stigmatized. Overall still better for them to exist than not, and budget cuts and restructuring really hurt the situation later, but still an organization with very real odds of making the situation worse, sometimes catastrophically worse.

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