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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#881

Post by msgodel »

baby_souffle wrote: post #104
msgodel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>having a monthly car payment in perpetuity is considered acceptable. I think that really depends on what part of America. At least where I grew up around a bunch of middle class conservatives listening to eg Dave Ramsey (who has other problems IMO) most people think of you as reckless/irresponsible for doing that sort of thing.

> I think that really depends on what part of America. And the age of the cohort... Millennials (1980 to '95-ish) have had student loans since as far back as they can remember. What's _another_ never-ending monthly payment?

I'm a younger (1994) Millennial and borrowed just $10k to finish my degree. I paid it off the first year I was employed. Very few of my friends still have loans. I'm pretty sure if you got yourself into a never-ending monthly payment situation you probably shouldn't have gone to college to begin with.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#882

Post by lowbloodsugar »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #593
Ray20 wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People who can do the math realize that paying more up front for a hybrid or full electric is paying less long-term. Can they? In long term maintainability decides. And hybrids usually has it with maintainability pretty bad. Large area of potential breaking, expansive spare parts usually with strong vendor-lock. Hybrids are very costly in maintainability, even if you are privileged elite that buys hybrid and in two…

Toyota hybrids are much cheaper to maintain. - No engine belts - No starter - No alternator - No transmission(1) - No torque converter - No turbochargers - Regenerative braking can significantly reduce brake pad wear Edit: - AWD is an electric motor on the rear axle. No driveshaft or transfer case required. As long as you drive it regularly and keep up with scheduled maintenance, you don't have to do anything for wel…

No starter and no alternator? Hybrids don’t have an electric motor or a way to turn mechanical power into electrical power? Also they don’t have timing belts?

I’m not super convinced that accessory belts are a major cause of maintenance. I only recall having to do that once at around 120k miles.

I think there is a good argument to be made that implementations like Toyotas HSD are more reliable than plain ICE, but you’re not making it here.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#883

Post by msgodel »

nradov wrote: post #120
SJC_Hacker wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Houses are debt, but are generally and appreciating asset Cars are a depreciating asset. It usually does not make sense to go into debt to get one

Houses are a depreciating asset. They require constant maintenance expenses just to hold their value. It's the land under the house that's the appreciating asset.

It's not even really the land, it's the cuts + certificate of occupancy which have both been made artificially harder to get for a number of reasons.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#884

Post by tlogan »

Glyptodon wrote: post #878
tlogan wrote: post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

I can't speak to the specific years, but there's no doubt that a fair number of small, less expensive, cars have been knocked off - the Rio, the Prius C, the Fiesta... I think there are more than just those (though maybe some of it is lineup consolidation, considering the eventual Kia K3). At the same time, some of the remaining options have had (IMO) huge MSRP hikes. But you are right that a lot of the price increas…

> less expensive, cars have been

> knocked off - the Rio,

> the Prius C, the Fiesta..

You are incorrect. Prius C in 2005 was $21,510 (not really "less expensive") and that is about $34,827.67 in 2025. (See: https://www.kbb.com/toyota/prius/2005/)

And in 2025 Prius starts from $28,350 (see: https://www.toyota.com/prius/)

So this narrative that there are no more cheap cars is incorrect.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#885

Post by kube-system »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #869
kube-system wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as are US automakers.

Can you provide any info on that? I’m curious.

They actually receive some of the highest subsidies of any companies in the US.

Some examples include:

* Politicians often give automakers often receive state and local tax breaks in exchange for constructing plants in their jurisdictions

* Federal grants and incentives for clean energy initiatives

* The infamous 2008 bailouts, where for example, the US Treasury bought enough GM shares that they became the controlling shareholder, effectively nationalizing the automaker.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#886

Post by margalabargala »

tlogan wrote: post #876
csomar wrote: post #835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not OP, but this seems like a decent source for the claim. It lists 12 cars under $25K MSRP: https://www.motortrend.com/features/cheapest-new-cars I need a source for the year 2005 not 2025. Of course, it is easier to have a source for 2025.

Here is 2005 list: - Chevrolet Aveo – Starting at $9,455 - Kia Rio – Starting at $10,570 - Hyundai Accent – Starting at $10,999 - Toyota Echo – Starting at $11,110 - Ford Focus ZX3 – Starting at $13,365 - Chevrolet Cavalier – Starting at $13,405 - Chrysler PT Cruiser – Starting at $13,995 - Dodge Neon SXT – Starting at $14,195 - Pontiac Sunfire – Starting at $14,200 see: https://www.kbb.com/pontiac/sunfire/2005 -Satu…

That's a list of "top 10 cars under $15k".

It's not all cars under $15k, just the best 10 among the multitude.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#887

Post by riku_iki »

josefresco wrote: post #880
riku_iki wrote: post #863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2005 accord is a 2025 civic class wise

2005 accord is 5 inchers longer, a couple inches wider and has a longer wheelbase. This results in larger interior space and trunk space. While cars are in fact getting bigger and heavier, in this case it's not as egregious.

you also could compare internal dimensions between 3: 2005 accord vs 2025 civic vs 2025 accord, I kinda believe 2025 civic will be closer to 2005 accord.

But I mostly referred on class in general: 2005 accord was basic appliance economy car, while 2025 accord has many more accura like luxury features besides drivetrain.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#888

Post by margalabargala »

csomar wrote: post #627
tlogan wrote: post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

> - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) You'll need to provide hard evidence for this. I was pretty young in 2005 but $15.000 would get you a decent car (though not a pickup). That being said, it is possible we have more models now under 25.000 but what $15/25k used to buy you (segment wise) has downgraded.

The person you replied to found a "top 10 cars under $15k" list and thought that that was all the under-15k cars of 2005.

You are correct.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#889

Post by bigfishrunning »

monkeyelite wrote: post #875
slackfan wrote: post #842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash for Clunkers was a hell of a program.

I have been thinking more about that recently. It’s very strange we convinced ourselves we were being economically efficient while destroying productive resources.

Not everyone was convinced -- it was pretty transparently 1) a subsidy to the car industry 2) an effort to hasten the proliferation of in-car surveillance tech

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#890

Post by neogodless »

Shalomboy wrote: post #745
arrozconcosas wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is to buy a car off lease, that has 20,000 miles on it and is 20-40% cheaper than the new price. It is nearly identical to a new car and has 90% of its useful life remaining.

I mean that's just not the reality anymore. You could perhaps get 10-15% of the price knocked off here in the US, but 20-40% isn't accurate for anything besides high-volume luxury compact sedans, and even then you're skewing much closer to 20-25% in most regions.

https://www.cars.com/shopping/results/?dealer_id=&include_sh...

Corollas in a High Cost-of-Living Area (HCOLA) that are ~3 years old, and under 30K miles, and all under $20,000. So... 20% or more off MSRP?

(The SE starts above $24k, the LE is a bit cheaper.)

I picked a hard example, but I bet for any car less popular and in demand than a Corolla (and in more normal areas), you can readily find them for 20% off MSRP at the 2-3 year old, 20-30k mark.

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