US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU • Hacker News Board

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#881

Post by supplied_demand » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:14 PM UTC

ein0p wrote: post #850

svara wrote: post #750

It's true that free trade is hugely beneficial to the US economy as a whole, particularly with the USD being the reserve currency. The flow of goods is balanced by a flow of US dollars to other countries, which are ultimately cycled back into the US financial system - enabling budget deficits and an abundance of capital to invest in high growth industries. The flip side of this is that it also drives inequality - the…

> lower the cost of high-quality education And how do you propose we do that? By giving schools even more money at taxpayer's expense? > raising taxes at the high end 40.1% of US taxpayers on the low end of income distribution pay no income tax, 16.5% pay neither income nor payroll taxes. Top 1% pays 40.4% of all income tax (while holding about 30.8% of net worth, 13.8% of the total is held by top 0.1%). Top 1% (with…

==40.1% of US taxpayers on the low end of income distribution pay no income tax==

According to 2022 IRS data, average deductions for those who itemized totaled $43,686 in tax year 2022 [0]. The 2022 bottom two quintiles of income were under $44k [1]. That means in 2022 rich people AND poor people didn't pay income taxes on their first $45k of income. Is that unfair to rich people?

Worth noting, the 25 richest Americans paid an average effective tax rate of 13%, as of 2018 when IRS data was leaked [2].

==Top 1% (with the possible exception of a few billionaires) already pays through their nose.==

"While average effective tax rates barely changed in the US from 1945 to 2015, the average tax rates of high-income households fell sharply—from about 50 percent to 25 percent for the highest income 0.01 percent and from about 40 percent to about 25 percent for the top 1 percent." [3]

If the average effective rate hasn't changed, but the effective rate paid by the top 1% has fallen by ~40%, how is the difference made up? The 99% pay more.

[0] https://www.pgpf.org/article/7-key-charts-on-tax-breaks/

[1] https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT1Y2022.B19081?q=income+qu...

[2] https://www.propublica.org/article/you-may-be-paying-a-highe...

[3] https://taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/effective-income-tax-rate...

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#882

Post by honkycat » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:15 PM UTC

svara wrote: post #750

It's true that free trade is hugely beneficial to the US economy as a whole, particularly with the USD being the reserve currency. The flow of goods is balanced by a flow of US dollars to other countries, which are ultimately cycled back into the US financial system - enabling budget deficits and an abundance of capital to invest in high growth industries. The flip side of this is that it also drives inequality - the…

> As such, this administration's policies are foolish, but many on this very site would need to give up a little bit of their privilege to reduce the pain felt by many of their fellow citizens.

Very few people who work as full-time devs are so wealthy that they are totally insulated from general social decline.

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#883

Post by seabrookmx » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:19 PM UTC

spamlettuce wrote: post #833

iteratethis wrote: post #75

This won't bring home manufacturing but let's say that it will... The US doesn't have the people to do the actual manufacturing. I saw a video recently explaining how sectors like the military, construction and the automotive industry each have 100K+ positions that they are unable to fill. A return to manufacturing adds to that shortage. Apparently there's some 7 million young men of working age that are...missing in…

If there was a real labor demand shortage wouldn't there be actual wage growth though ?

But if wages increase so does cost of manufacturing in the US, making US goods less competitive not more?

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#884

Post by DennisP » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:22 PM UTC

iteratethis wrote: post #75

This won't bring home manufacturing but let's say that it will... The US doesn't have the people to do the actual manufacturing. I saw a video recently explaining how sectors like the military, construction and the automotive industry each have 100K+ positions that they are unable to fill. A return to manufacturing adds to that shortage. Apparently there's some 7 million young men of working age that are...missing in…

Good thing we're deporting so many people then.

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#885

Post by ojbyrne » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:26 PM UTC

MR4D wrote: post #806

svara wrote: post #750

It's true that free trade is hugely beneficial to the US economy as a whole, particularly with the USD being the reserve currency. The flow of goods is balanced by a flow of US dollars to other countries, which are ultimately cycled back into the US financial system - enabling budget deficits and an abundance of capital to invest in high growth industries. The flip side of this is that it also drives inequality - the…

The deficit is 2 trillion. Income taxes on individuals are 2.4 trillion. How much do you expect to raise taxes to cover that gap? You double my taxes and I’m in the welfare line. Further, and this is not referenced enough - the US must rollover ~9 trillion in treasuries this year. The lower the interest rate to do that, the better. Otherwise it increase the deficit even more. The only way this ends is one of two path…

The current administration has no interest in reducing the fiscal deficit. Their expressed policies will make it larger.

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#886

Post by jodacola » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:31 PM UTC

I'm an American. I've generally benefited from the system here (which speaks to my privilege, of which I'm aware). I don't want to wade into political battles, but I'm genuinely concerned for my future and the future of my children from an economic standpoint, based on where things seem to be going.

I am considering options on the spectrum with ends like:

* Staying here, because this is where I was born and raised and I've felt like the country has generally taken care of me - and hey, it can't stay bad forever, right?

* Leaving to another country, because I am feeling less and less like the country's leadership care about building a society or economy that tries to take care of its people and creates incentives to innovate.

This isn't because of just the last few months; I view the last few months as big symptoms of something more systemic that's been building up. I am also not looking to jump ship quickly because things "temporarily got hard."

On the flip side, I'm also feeling incredibly jaded these days: how could it be much better anywhere else?

Are there places out in the world where my wife and I could take our experience (mine being a strong career in tech, my wife's being a strong nursing career) and put it to use elsewhere where I could hope for a good standard of living, more stability in government leadership, and incentives similar to the economic system I grew up in, where our children could thrive and build a life?

I'm not pulling any triggers quickly or easily... I'm just trying to gather some data and different perspectives, even those that might challenge my own. Maybe an answer is "stop reading news."

edit: formatting

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#887

Post by StackRanker3000 » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:31 PM UTC

IMTDb wrote: post #704

roxolotl wrote: post #479

Aside from everything else one thing what strikes me as particularly insane is how it’s not even defensible as a protective measure. My favorite everyday olive oil comes from Tunisia. They now have a 38% tariff on them. There are no out of work olive farmers in the US. The orange man wanted tariffs, the orange man is going to get tariffs. Now we have to hope the American people aren’t so dumb as to still be convinced…

The orange man is saying: "Looks like you are sending a lot of $$$ to those olive oil farmers in Tunisia. With my tariffs you now have two choices at your disposal: either you keep buying their Olive oil but then you are going to have to give me $$$ as well to pay for our national debt. You are going to buy less of it; and help your country in the process. Alternatively, you can decide that maybe you don't need olive…

> but then you are going to have to give me $$$ as well to pay for our national debt

You realize this money will not be used to pay down the national debt, but rather fund commensurate tax cuts for the very rich?

Their plan for the budget deficit is instead to slash expenditures (see DOGE and what they’re up to).

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#888

Post by dumbledoren » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:36 PM UTC

jodacola wrote: post #886

I'm an American. I've generally benefited from the system here (which speaks to my privilege, of which I'm aware). I don't want to wade into political battles, but I'm genuinely concerned for my future and the future of my children from an economic standpoint, based on where things seem to be going. I am considering options on the spectrum with ends like: * Staying here, because this is where I was born and raised an…

Yeah, go gentrify the locals in some lower-cost-of-living country. You sure 'deserve' it because for some reason you have a 'right' to just immigrate there and buy their housing and sh*t from under their feet.

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#889

Post by phtrivier » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:38 PM UTC

Side concern: how impactful must the tarrifs be to make a noticable dent in global trend, and a noticable dent on climate change ?

(I mean, it would not be noticed by the USA anymore, since they're not into that whole "science" stuff, but I heard that Europeans have learned how to make a couple satellites on the side.)

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#890

Post by waffletower » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:42 PM UTC

svara wrote: post #750

It's true that free trade is hugely beneficial to the US economy as a whole, particularly with the USD being the reserve currency. The flow of goods is balanced by a flow of US dollars to other countries, which are ultimately cycled back into the US financial system - enabling budget deficits and an abundance of capital to invest in high growth industries. The flip side of this is that it also drives inequality - the…

As a highly skilled and comparatively highly paid worker, I feel it is outrageous to suggest that I am within the class that needs to give up any reputed "wealth" when I am nowhere near the 1% who hold more than 50% of it. Such a claim just contributes to the wealth making of the 1% misers even more. Class warfare! I have already had to give up significant amounts of college and retirement savings from these tariffs.