Live data from Hacker News

String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

sfgate.com

881–890 of 952 posts

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have said "interests" rather than rights, although one thing I know is that when this civilization collapses people will turn their back on everything it stood for and the idea of individualism and rights will be gone ("my carbon my choice"), the next culture will have a bill of responsibilities. Sports is a clear example. Nobody has a 'right' to be on a sports team. Women have been working for years to buil…

> when this civilization collapses people will turn their back on everything it stood for and the idea of individualism and rights will be gone ("my carbon my choice"), the next culture will have a bill of responsibilities. I agree that Americans don't think enough about their responsibilities. I fully support a bill of responsibilities paired with rights. Several countries have that kind of list already. They're not…

Women's sports just took time. I do sports photography for a lot of events which gives me some input for an opinion.

When it comes to soccer at Ithaca College the men play a very physical but kinda stupid game which has a lot of hard running and kicking and headers but very little sense of space. The women play much smarter soccer that looks more like good pro soccer, where, ideally everybody knows where their team mates are supposed to be and what to do to confound the opposition. More people turn up for a women's game in the rain than turn up for a men's game in the shine. They're both entertaining in their own way.

At Cornell I think the men play better than the women categorically but that's not about men or women, it's about the coaching staff, the recruiting, the priorities of the schools, etc.

Last Friday I went to a double header of women's and men's basketball at IC. The women's game was unequal but I was focused on getting good shots of the players and not thinking about the quality of the play. One of the men from the away team promised me that if I stuck around I'd see a much more entertaining game, I said I wouldn't miss it. It was 12-0 for Ithaca at the beginning so I was getting worried they wouldn't come but Hobart did and it was like 63-60 at the end. Side by side the men were so much bigger, so much faster, so much more intense. Still I like the competition and teamwork of women's ball and would rather show up in person at any college game of either gender and watch the NBA on TV.

I think time will tell what's right about fair competition, in the meantime women's soccer and basketball at the pro level is becoming a big business in the US.

In my mind 'patriarchy' is a thought stopping word. We picture the Hebrew god as an old man on a throne with a beard. One take on it is that it's got nothing to do with woman at all except as tokens, it's really a game of status where young men and poor men are dominated by rich men and old men. It's particularly harmful when it comes to discussing the 'incel' phenomenon which mainly affects straight men (slightly more likely to be black or asian!) but also affects women and gay men.

People like J K Rowling don't have a choice but to get cooked by right wing social media because there isn't a sensible discourse from the left.

I do believe in free will. If you think moral agency matters, you have to believe we have a choice. I think genes and epigenetics matter more than people want to admit and hell yeah there are bad environments. But in the end you've got a choice. The 'bad' thing I see is not so much virtue or vice but more like inflammation, as in the medical condition.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have said "interests" rather than rights, although one thing I know is that when this civilization collapses people will turn their back on everything it stood for and the idea of individualism and rights will be gone ("my carbon my choice"), the next culture will have a bill of responsibilities. Sports is a clear example. Nobody has a 'right' to be on a sports team. Women have been working for years to buil…

> when this civilization collapses people will turn their back on everything it stood for and the idea of individualism and rights will be gone ("my carbon my choice"), the next culture will have a bill of responsibilities. I agree that Americans don't think enough about their responsibilities. I fully support a bill of responsibilities paired with rights. Several countries have that kind of list already. They're not…

> Is it trans people who have caused women's sports to be second-class, or the patriarchy enforced by cisgender men?

Is there any possible other reason than these two things, do you think, for this state of affairs?

> making a class of women inherently lesser.

A sort of Morton's fork here would be that transwomen are lesser women because they have to assume that identity instead of starting there (to say nothing of the intuitive biological differences), or that women (and thus trans women) are lesser because they are a subset of the functionality offered by men (because they can be emulated by men choosing to do so). I don't particularly agree with either point, mind you, but both could be made. The trivial solution to avoid this is to simply acknowledge that trans women are neither men nor women (nor trans men) and are a category unto themselves worth valuing on their own merits and characteristics.

> True. Her brain was cooked by constant exposure to right-wing bigotry on social media, like many others'.

If it is reasonable to believe--as everybody seems told to--that constant exposure to right-wing media and bigotry can turn somebody into a bigot, is it really a stretch to believe that for some chunk of the trans population the same has taken place? Further, do you see why such doublethink would make the trans folks who preach it suspect to normies who see the obvious?

> We are entirely the products of our genetics and our environments.

If that's the case, it suggests something odious: there is no virtue in being trans--you're a medical and social anomaly, and if we can remove the factors that cause trans folks to occur all that suffering goes away in a generation or two and the system does better (on the metric of suffering).

And before you go off on how this is unethical or not virtuous or whatever, by your own assertion...

> I am a very firm believer that there is no free will.

...such a solution is admissible and without blame, because no moral agents would be involved in its occurrence.

(You don't get to claim there is no free will and then hold anybody accountable in any moral way. Morality does not exist unless free will does; otherwise, it's just the dull observation of iterated cost-benefit analysis and reactions to an environment.)

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#883

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is omitting quite a significant detail. If apparently the majority of people have X characteristic that is a tiny percentage in the overall population there is some correlation or something newsworthy there,

To quote a hot potato of a previous age: all bankers may be Jews, but not all Jews are bankers. We know where that one took us.

It's fashionable to invoke the baddies of Germany but let's zoom out a bit and just live in reality. Virtually no group on this planet that is not primarily about sexual characteristics or fetishes or whatever is almost entirely made up of people from this particular group and this death cult that is, presumably about "rationalist" mumbo jumbo, is primarily made up of this group. That is certainly newsworthy.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#884
post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an extraordinary claim; it's an obvious one. Autistic sensory processing deficits make many everyday interactions traumatic, especially in childhood. It infuriates me that this isn't obvious to you and yet you posted a comment anyway.

The commenter above was claiming that trauma causes autism, not the other way around. > it can often be trauma that causes the auto immunes... It’s hard to find a not traumatized autistic person

I interpreted taurath to be saying that it is hard to untangle causality because autistic people are almost universally traumatized. Because we know autism causes trauma, it's very hard to tell if trauma causes autism. A slight variant on this is that we know that some of the symptoms of trauma and of autism are the same, and while these symptoms are often taken to be defining characteristics of the autism syndrome, it isn't at all clear that the etiology of autism causes them through any pathway causally independent of trauma. You'd need to find a lot of non-traumatized autistic people to be able to tell, and it's hard to find any.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#885
post #194

Doesn't sound rationalist to me (from Ziz quoted section of article linked below): "Ziz Impostors keep thinking it's safe to impersonate single goods. A nice place to slide in psyche/shadow, false faces, "who could ever falsify that I'm blaming it on my headmate!" Saying you're single good is saying, "Help, I have a Yeerk in my head that's a mirror image of me. I need you to surgically destroy it, even if I'm then cr…

I put this post into Suno https://suno.com/song/13bdb0ef-a219-4a2c-b1bf-646698593e56

needs more male falsetto

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#886

[Former member of that world, roommates with one of Ziz's friends for a while, so I feel reasonably qualified to speak on this.] The problem with rationalists/EA as a group has never been the rationality, but the people practicing it and the cultural norms they endorse as a community. As relevant here: 1) While following logical threads to their conclusions is a useful exercise, each logical step often involves some…

This is a very insightful comment. As someone who was 3rd-degree connected to that world during my time in the bay, this matches the general vibe of conversations and people I ran into at house parties and hangouts very very well.

It's amazing how powerful isolation followed by acceptance is at modifying human behavior.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#887
post #2

> self-described “vegan Sith” ideology Had it not been in a serious article I would have believed it had to a parody or a joke of some sort. “We are just like Darth Maul, but we like salads and drink soy milk instead of regular milk… and then kill people while dressed in tactical black outfits”? What is even going on? Real life now sounds like some kinda of a broken LLM hallucination.

People love to fall into these sort of traps where they convince themselves they are fighting for some sort of cause. The more hopeless the better.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but hundreds of thousands of people have worked for Google without being experts on AI. Anyone who employs one, doesn't automatically become more credible. If you believe that then I want you to know that this comment was written by an ex-Google employee and thus must be authoritative ;)

Good point! If I could write the comment over again, I'd probably leave out the ex-Googlers. But I thought of another math PhD who was happy to work for Eliezer's institute, Scott Garrabrant. I could probably find more if I did a search of the web.

Math PhDs are also a dime a dozen

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#889

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I sound crazy saying what I'm about to say but it is the truth as I understand it and I think it's important. It appears to me that there is a certain modality of thought that occurs much more often in people with hEDS, specifically those with TNXB SNPs. If you're super deep into type theory the odds substantially increase that you have hEDS - it's how I found out that I had it. And this same group is far more…

could you please contact me on Discord or email (in my profile)? I have also investigated the connections between hEDS, being trans and a specific kind of autism, along with TNXB.

Will do, I was researching generic causes into hEDS + autism in general and came across a post you made on HN in 2021 where you mentioned TNXB. Noticed your technical background and I figured that was far too close to be random. I went from thinking that TNXB is just one of many possible causes of hEDS and super rare to thinking that most definitely I have it. A WGS confirmed it. Word about it is starting to get around it helps that we tend to have similar interests and hobbies. It is statistically blindingly obvious to me but it is surprisingly really hard to convince others. Most people understand the world through a lens of social proof and can’t imagine a world where something like this could remain undiscovered.
Post reply on HN