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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#881

Post by neoromantique »

lossolo wrote: post #858
asheri wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel does not have a fundamentalist, authoritarian government! There are some fundamentalist and far-right parties in the current coalition but they have little power to push their own policies except to threaten to bolt the coalition. For all the talk of those 2-3 ministers to who belong to these more extreme parties to eg legitimise new settlements, repopulate gaza, they don't have enough power to actually pass s…

Be aware that this account has only one post (this one) and was created around 8 months ago when reports started to appear about Israeli influence on American public opinion online. "Israeli State-sponsored Internet propaganda include the Hasbara, Hasbara Fellowships, Act.IL, and the Jewish Internet Defense Force. Supporters generally frame this "hasbara" as part of its fight towards improving their image abroad give…

Anything to say on the substance of the comment?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#882

Post by thomassmith65 »

fuzzfactor wrote: post #871
thomassmith65 wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 'not complicated' if one is lazy. The comment is missing a lot of mitigating pieces of information: - the empires that governed the land before '48 and how that affects consent - the lack of options for Jews facing persecution, pograms and a holocaust given immigration policies of nations around the world - the many Jews in Israel formerly from middle-eastern nations - the complication to the birth-right citizen…

>The problem with the conflict is that both sides are right. So true on a theoretical basis, and at the same time both sides are wrong for fighting on that same basis. Leaving the only sensible participants those who are committed to complete non-violence for a few generations, no-one else could possibly have beneficial actionable input without making things worse. >the empires that governed the land before '48 and h…

I think my wording was a bit vague there. By 'two empires', I meant the two who governed Palestine prior to 1948 (ie: the Ottoman, and then the British).

When zionism came about, Palestinian arabs were not in power and could not determine policy.

Zionist jews spend years wrangling (sometimes violently) promises and concessions from the British, and finally from the UN, who, at the time, seemed like the legitimate bodies to grant them.

In retrospect, 'what business did the Ottomans or British have to allow foreign zionists to take over Palestine?' but that's with the benefit of hindsight.

Not that either side is evil... it's a complicated conflict.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#883

Post by hedora »

bawolff wrote: post #510
hedora wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you proposing the deal could be made more fair? Keep in mind: Israel killed 100x more civilians than Palestine during this conflict, and more damage was done to Gaza than any European city during wwii. 90% of the population is displaced. 10% are casualties. Israel intentionally blew up all the civil infrastructure (hospitals, doctors, engineers) first. There are > 17,000 children that have no adults to care f…

> How are you proposing the deal could be made more fair? Keeping hostages is a war crime. A fair thing would be for Hamas to follow its obligations under international law and unconditionally release them (before anyone says, well israel did X which also isn't allowed, 2 wrongs don't make a right). > more damage was done to Gaza than any European city during wwii How are you quantifying this? I'd be surprised if Gaz…

Having both sides obey their obligations under international law would be a good first step.

Maybe Israel could start by turning over everyone subject to an outstanding International Criminal Court warrant. (Starting with Netanyahu, of course.)

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#884

Post by xdennis »

mkoubaa wrote: post #868
throwaway7783 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% support ceasefire. 100% agree Israel overdid it. 100% support Hamas must cease to exist. Don't leave that last part out

Whatever you think of Hamas, a blockade and/or occupation will result in militant resistance groups. In every single example of human history without a single exception.

[flagged]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#885

Post by kgwgk »

hmcq6 wrote: post #826
kgwgk wrote: post #793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Asked if acts of violence against those who publish images of the Prophet Muhammad can "never be justified", 68% [of British Muslims] agreed that such violence was never justifiable. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31293196 You’re confusing Al-Qaeda with one third of Muslims living in a Western country.

> Asked if acts of violence against those who publish images of the Prophet Muhammad can "never be justified", 68% agreed that such violence was never justifiable. > But 24% disagreed with the statement, while the rest replied "don't know" or refused to answer. > Of those polled, 95% felt a loyalty to Britain, while 93% believed that Muslims in Britain should always obey British laws. 24%. 24% = 1/3. You seem like th…

I missed that figure, I stand corrected.

So it’s “only” one fourth that told that it may be justified - the rest up to one third didn’t confirm nor deny that it may be justified.

It’s also very reassuring that maybe they don’t find that violence is justified when you publish only one image of muhammad. Maybe you’re right and it’s repeated publication of muhammad images that deserves violence.

Here is a long-time offender: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/feb/17/wikipedia...

Or maybe you meant that violence against anyone who does anything may be justified (?) because of some other thing that they may be doing.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#886

Post by fakedang »

macspoofing wrote: post #877
pjc50 wrote: post #835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel, as it it currently constituted (based on 1967 borders) is not a viable state if the West Bank is a hostile entity with a standing army, and funded to a similar extent as Hezbollah. The West Bank bulges into Israel and effectively cuts the country in half and places all strategic targets within shelling distance. This is exactly the same argument that Russia has been using to annex territories such as Crimea…

>This is exactly the same argument that Russia has been using to annex territories such as Crimea The rhetoric may be superficially similar, but facts on the ground aren't. The Russian state is not under an existential threat in the same way that Israel would be with Hezbollah in the north, and a similar entity in the West Bank and Gaza. Israel is a tiny nation with a tiny population. Russian and Israel's security is…

Palestinians aren't even trusted by their Arab brethren, and they expect to be given the benefit of doubt.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#887

Post by cnlevy »

amingilani wrote: post #852

*Genocide. It’s not a war. As a dev, I hate jargon to dress up trivial products or when distressing things are watered down. Usually I keep my feelings to myself but in this case, allowing a genocide to be watered down would make me complicit. P.S. I understand this will be downvoted. But HN karma is a small price to pay to call out the softening of a literal genocide. Imagine standing by when someone calls Germany’s…

45 000 deaths is genocide ? What's the civilian/military ratio ?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#888

Post by neoromantique »

presentation wrote: post #738
gravisultra wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all. The current conflict isn't some thousand year old feud. It was very much caused by the deliberate provocation and importation of European settlers via Zionism. It's easy to wave our hands and say "it's so complicated!" or "they've been doing this for thousands of years!" but it's not complicated, much like apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were not complicated. Colonialis…

That’s cool and all but the Israelis are in Israel already, there’s no turning back the clock on Zionism without the mass expulsion of Jews who have no other home to go to. Palestinians have a legitimate historical claim and so do Israelis. They’re exactly that, historical. If both sides can’t let those be history, it’s either eternal conflict or the elimination of one of them.

>mass expulsion of Jews who have no other home to go to.

What? They should just go back to Poland! /s

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#889

Post by sempron64 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #879
rayiner wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Most countries wouldn't be in that position in the first place. Mexico attacking the US would be basically unprovoked; Hamas attacking Israel is… not.

Before the attacks Israel was in the process of normalizing relations with Gaza. For example, they were increasing work permits monthly. Here is an article from summer 2022

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/bennett-said-to...

The Nova music festival was a peace festival.

So yes, the Oct 7th attack was unprovoked. Subjective historical context is not provocation.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#890

Post by rayiner »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #879
rayiner wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Most countries wouldn't be in that position in the first place. Mexico attacking the US would be basically unprovoked; Hamas attacking Israel is… not.

We literally took California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, and Texas from independent Mexico in a war.
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