Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs • Hacker News Board

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#881

Post by bartread » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 1:36 PM UTC

firefoxd wrote: post #184

I wrote about my experience working as a software developer and being black in the industry and I was lucky to have it published on BBC [1]. What immediately followed, every large company reached out to have me work as a consultant for their diversity program. I found it fascinating that they had a team of DEI experts in place already. Like what makes one an expert? In addition to my job, I spent nights developing pr…

You say you only placed one? Did you get any feedback on the rejections or were they just cold/ghosted?

So I don’t positively discriminate but, the most recent role I was looking to fill, I didn’t speak to that many candidates because applicant quality was overall poor, but getting on half of those I did speak with were from minorities.

In the end we decided not to hire for the time being because we couldn’t find anyone at the standard we needed (possibly due to time of year - November/December often aren’t great), but I’m surprised that you weren’t even getting people to interview. That, on the face of it, is quite concerning.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#882

Post by KaiserPro » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 1:43 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #470

specialp wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The start of the funnel is also the most racist and class discriminatory. Almost every school in the USA takes pupils from districts where the property owners pay the taxes for the schools. Rich areas get much more resources and support. Poor students get put into less funded schools and suffer from not having mentorship or peers to look up to. I live on Long Island and we have a majority white population. Despite th…

America spends more money per student, in almost any school district, than any European country. The problem is not "resources and support". We've tried "resources and support" for 50 years, so the (a priori entirely fantastical) notion that just throwing more money at the problem would make it go away has been thoroughly disproven.

https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statisti...

Depends which state.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#883

Post by ukoki » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 1:46 PM UTC

aldebran wrote: post #681

annzabelle wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the most egregious hiring practice I've actually seen. The white/black/hispanic/asian american managers all hire teams with multiple ethnicities based on the most qualified candidates for the job, while Indian born managers frequently seem to end up with teams that are 80+% Indian. I don't think I've ever seen a team that's 80% white, even in roles that require US Citizenship, but 80% Indian happens frequently…

There’s a simpler non malicious explanation for this. Asians know other Asians in tech and hire based on who they are familiar with rather than their ethnicity. It’s also why women managers tend to have more women in their teams. It’s not malicious. Just a side effect of people’s network. Should that change? Yes. You want a heterogenous team. And this is exactly why DEI is important hahaha

Are you sure? there are particular combinations of ethnicity and gender for which people seem to be quite convinced it's "malicious" when hirers stick to their own

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#884

Post by sethammons » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 1:47 PM UTC

MathMonkeyMan wrote: post #714

crystal_revenge wrote: post #703

A few years ago I worked for a company obsessed with DEI. But, as a 40+, I knew their DEI programs where complete BS because they forgot the most important protected group: old people! At this company we had plenty of groups for Muslims, blacks, Jews, Asians, etc, but I was one of the only people over 40. People would laugh when I mentioned that we needed a DEI group for people over 40... but I wasn't entirely kiddin…

If somebody is not a white man, you probably don't have to pay them more than if they were a white man. If somebody is older, then you probably DO have to pay them more than if they were younger, because older candidates likely have more experience and have correspondingly higher salary expectations. So there's that. Now suppose you have an older candidate who is not demanding high seniority pay. In that case they sh…

Some of my early unconscious bias interview training helped me realize I assumed older candidates were vastly more experienced, and when they were "normal," then they must not be very good. Logically, that is silly because everyone is at different levels at different times with different areas of interest. 28 or 55, give the same interview against the same rubric and let the best candidate win.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#885

Post by tyingq » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 2:01 PM UTC

hshshshshsh wrote: post #771

bigtimesink wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never join one of these teams if you're not the modal race. This isn't the case for every team, but there will be important conversations in a language you don't know, and worst case, you were brought on so they have someone to let go when the company demands another 5%.

How do you know the conversation is important if you don't know the language?

Noting you seem to be the only person on the team surprised when important news is shared more broadly later.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#886

Post by inemesitaffia » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 2:10 PM UTC

Manuel_D wrote: post #665

dmurray wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> acknowledging that such DEI program was performative in the first place That seems unnecessarily judgemental about the true effect of the program. Maybe it was really effective and made Meta more productive and also helped many people from historically underrepresented backgrounds people get good jobs, but they're falsely claiming it's ineffective because that's what they expect the current political leadership wan…

The DEI policies were effective, particularly the Diverse Slate Approach. But it's legally risky to continue with it under the current administration since it was a race and gender conscious policy. People can argue as to whether it was "discrimination" but it absolutely was conscious of candidate's protected class.

Did it note the particular ethnic group that's overrepresented in US Tech?

Unlikely

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#887

Post by bastardoperator » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 2:15 PM UTC

antics wrote: post #760

bastardoperator wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have to be invested in a cause to know that diversity in problem solving can be a key component to success hence global technology companies, or that promoting the ideas of equity and inclusion are things most humans can benefit from. DEI is not about change or solving a particular problem, it's about awareness of perspective and seeking to understand others.

To be clear I am not arguing for or against working with a bunch of people from totally different backgrounds, demographics, etc . I am arguing that, because we can't do everything we should decide what really matters to us, commit to it in the long term, and invest in it to the exclusion of the many other completely worthy causes. I know it sounds obvious, but at least for the communities I belong to, the industry c…

It sounds like you're confusing affirmative action with DEI. A broader perspective benefits everyone. Different lived experiences contribute to a broader perspective. It's not about checking boxes or filling quotas and it's not specific to any particular group.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#888

Post by empath75 » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 2:19 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #246

firefoxd wrote: post #184

I wrote about my experience working as a software developer and being black in the industry and I was lucky to have it published on BBC [1]. What immediately followed, every large company reached out to have me work as a consultant for their diversity program. I found it fascinating that they had a team of DEI experts in place already. Like what makes one an expert? In addition to my job, I spent nights developing pr…

A lot of people say DEI programs were purely performative and just for political points. But these policies did change the corporate landscape and affect hiring decisions. Of 323,092 new jobs added in 2021 by S&P 100 companies, 302,570 (94%) went to people of color This data came from workforce demographic reports submitted to the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission by 88 S&P 100 companies Hispanic individua…

This is true, but that was a one or two year phenomenon, driven by BLM protests, and at the end of it, ended with white people still having a disproportionate share of senior and management positions.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#889

Post by bamboozled » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 2:21 PM UTC

greenthrow wrote: post #182

paxys wrote: post #88

DEI was a song and dance that companies put on for the media, politicians, investors, employees, and the public at large. Now anti-DEI is a song and dance for the exact same reason. If you have been in the business long enough, you will know that the company has NO ONE's interests at heart. Never had and never will. They will discriminate against any race they have to, whether majority or minority, if it leads to an…

This take is cynical to the point of wilfull ignorance. My spouse works in DEI and I guarantee you her and her coworkers are sincere and trying to instill better, less biased hiring practices and to make everyone feel welcome and part of the team. Not everyone is going to be the same but that's like anything else. Being 100% dismissive is as much of a mistake as being 100% unquestioningly accepting.

Exactly, throwing the baby out with the bath water, but I have to ask the question , why did any of this happen in the first place? There must’ve been some need and catalyst for it outside of “libtardation”.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#890

Post by bamboozled » Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 2:23 PM UTC

malshe wrote: post #611

In Texas, effective January 2024 DEI activities by state universities were prohibited. Universities are still trying to understand the implications fully [1]. I am generally in support of DEI on the university campuses but there were a few unwanted outcomes of blind DEI pursuit. The first major bad outcome is it adds administrative bloat. Our universities are already admin heavy. DEI departments just inflated that bl…

I think this is all misguided honestly. There was a need for some of this, now because we’re claiming cost the democracy the election we need to tear it all up. Smells fishy to me.