Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction • Hacker News Board

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#881

Post by Cthulhu_ » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:08 AM UTC

midhhhthrow wrote: post #733

njtransit wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A somewhat sensible take, but the issue isn’t just healthcare. A lot of your life is based off of long-term, fixed cost cash flow. E.g. you can’t pay less on your mortgage just because you got fired. Even with savings, getting laid off is highly disruptive, and, if done as part of a broader downturn in the market, you may never recover the required cash flow to enable your lifestyle.

This why we need the tiny home movement combined with progressive property taxes - 0 prop tax bracket for lowest 20% property values If you have mortgage then you don’t really own your house.

Tiny homes like the coffin homes of overpopulated cities, you mean?

Or tiny homes like the luxury single occupant container buildings on a bit of land?

Tiny homes are not the solution, they are hipster semi-cottage-core fashion homes. You're probably thinking of regular apartments, but for some reason they aren't built at the rate needed. Build ten million apartments (for starters) and the cost of living will go down. Satisfy / saturate the market first, then think of gentrifying with fashion homes.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#882

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:17 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #811

GiorgioG wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't eat index funds.

> I can't eat index funds You can't eat cash either. If "can I eat it" is your metric, buy army rations.

I don't know why we treat large stock portfolios as if it's a convinient savings account in these talks.

My financial teachings were always emergency fund -> 3-6 months of savings immediately accessible -> consider stocks (hire a financial planner if you don't know stocks) -> consider asset management. your first foray into saving if you're barely spacing by isn't to rely on the S&P 500.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#883

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:20 AM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #881

midhhhthrow wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This why we need the tiny home movement combined with progressive property taxes - 0 prop tax bracket for lowest 20% property values If you have mortgage then you don’t really own your house.

Tiny homes like the coffin homes of overpopulated cities, you mean? Or tiny homes like the luxury single occupant container buildings on a bit of land? Tiny homes are not the solution, they are hipster semi-cottage-core fashion homes. You're probably thinking of regular apartments, but for some reason they aren't built at the rate needed. Build ten million apartments (for starters) and the cost of living will go down…

>but for some reason they aren't built at the rate needed.

crabs in a bucket. Those who got in and got theirs don't want their property value falling. Americans treating housing as a stock instead of a necessary resource for living really ruined a lot of the dynamic of city planning.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#884

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:21 AM UTC

lazide wrote: post #676

njtransit wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A somewhat sensible take, but the issue isn’t just healthcare. A lot of your life is based off of long-term, fixed cost cash flow. E.g. you can’t pay less on your mortgage just because you got fired. Even with savings, getting laid off is highly disruptive, and, if done as part of a broader downturn in the market, you may never recover the required cash flow to enable your lifestyle.

Just wait until you have to deal with child support and imputed income. Getting fired/laid off is about the only thing that can save you.

Can't relate, dating market is somehow worse than the job market.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#885

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:27 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #762

bruckie wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your manager doesn't get upset when you leave, bit weird how people feel so differently when they get fired. When you leave, your manager loses 1/N of team productivity. When you get fired, you lose 100% of your income. I bet the manager would be more upset if the entire team quit. But even then, they'd still have their job—for a while, at least.

Eventually we all get fired. It shouldn't come as a shock. This is why people working in volatile industries subject to boom/bust cycles should live below their means and keep at least several months of living expenses (including health insurance premiums) in low-risk, liquid investments. I do understand that it can be challenging to save for young people with student debt starting out in a HCOL area. But I see older…

>Eventually we all get fired.

Something uncommmon for Gen X and unthinkable for Boomers. But think about how modern America structured all these payment plans...

>This is why people working in volatile industries subject to boom/bust cycles

you just said everyone get fired. I think today it's harder to find a job that isn't on bust/boom. Especially a public company that will slash employees simply to make number go up, no even because they are struggling per se.

>several months of living expenses (including health insurance premiums) in low-risk, liquid investments.

Low risk invesements are talking 2% on a great day and 4% on an excellent day. There were people above talking about 8% interest rates from S&P to outrun inflation long term.

>But I see older tech workers who ought to know better buying luxury cars and fancy gaming PCs and taking exotic vacations.

odd we compare a 6 figure luxury car to what's at best some $5k gaming setup that can in fact be used for more work in this tech sector. my 2.5K laptop was probably a better investment pre-bust than my new bed (I guess we'll see in 20 years with my back, but the bed isn't making me money).

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#886

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:29 AM UTC

ironmagma wrote: post #686

desbo wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that someone's response to being fired should be the same as a manager's response to one of their reports quitting is hilariously out of touch.

It kind of ignores the core asymmetry of capitalism, that those with the capital are the ones with the power. Nobody can do a background check on a company to see who they laid off or fired before they work there.

> “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.” - Anatole France

Too many focus on equal outcome instead of equal opportuniy.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#887

Post by Cthulhu_ » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:39 AM UTC

elric wrote: post #90

I'm always a bit confused by profitable companies with (presumably) large reserves laying off lots of people. I get that they want to remain profitable. But sure 500ish people could be put to some use? A new product, a new market, a spinoff. Whatever? Are you telling me that no one in such a big, wealthy company of clever engineers has any use for a bunch of talented people?

They could, but they would need to be paid as well; a new market, spinoff, product, etc are all investments, and all investments are gambles.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#888

Post by positr0n » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:39 AM UTC

ramblerman wrote: post #869

nickff wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also different types of creep, some that you can easily stop, and others that are more difficult. Specifically, everything that involves a medium to long-term obligation (such as a mortgage or vehicle loan) can cause problems if you cannot sustain it through cashflow interruptions or significant declines. Going out to expensive restaurants and Broadway shows definitely costs a lot of money, but you can imme…

You can still sell your house or car. The first potentially for more money. The restaurants and broadway shows are gone. I’m all for spending on experiences btw. But you have it backwards financially.

Transaction costs for selling your house are incredibly high. Also depending on your personal situation, especially if you have kids in school, it can be extremely disruptive.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#889

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:40 AM UTC

Quothling wrote: post #750

carabiner wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy takes "full responsibility," even.

When a CEO takes full responsibility for these things it doesn't mean that they submit themselves to the punishment that internet users might want. It's the CEO telling their impacted employees that, no matter how well you did as an employee, you would still have been impacted. It's the CEO showing you empathy for the hurt they cause you for having failed to steer the company in a viable direction. These messages are…

>It's the CEO showing you empathy for the hurt they cause you for having failed to steer the company in a viable direction.

Nah, screw that. So may CEOs get told by workers this is a horrible route, drive straight into a wall, then show "empathy" for their bloody nose as they throw the passengers off a cliff?

That's not empathy, that saving face.

>Stuff like this happens in business

Stupid stuff always happens. Doesn't mean we shouldn't call out stupid stuff every-time it comes up. I won't accept "it is what it is" when livliehoods are at stake.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#890

Post by caskstrength » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 9:42 AM UTC

Quothling wrote: post #750

carabiner wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy takes "full responsibility," even.

When a CEO takes full responsibility for these things it doesn't mean that they submit themselves to the punishment that internet users might want. It's the CEO telling their impacted employees that, no matter how well you did as an employee, you would still have been impacted. It's the CEO showing you empathy for the hurt they cause you for having failed to steer the company in a viable direction. These messages are…

> Changing course is a CEO taking responsibility for the company.

Changing course and immediately resigning would be that.