Reflecting on 18 Years at Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#881

Post by xyzelement » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 1:15 PM UTC

I couldn’t help but hear a desire for lack of accountability in this post. The guy worked at Google for 20 years but really just worked on open source projects he liked without regard for whether it added value to the company (and in fact fondly recalls someone telling him that googles interests shouldn’t matter.)

I get why that’s fun but you can’t run a company forever in that way. In my eye even the layoffs are a signal that headcount is not infinite and you have to align what people work on to what makes money.

His ranting against his VP and Sundar seem hollow, for all I can tell he’s just upset the gravy train of no accountability is over.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#882

Post by gniv » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 1:24 PM UTC

artzmeister wrote: post #228

You see a lot of people here in the comments, as well as the author in the article, talking about how "there are good and well-meaning people working at Google" and "it sucks that people unfortunately hate us =(". A genuine question: if one is a good, well intentioned human being, supposedly with principles, and ends up actively contributing to a dystopia or at least a much worse society, is that person excused becau…

> actively contributing to a dystopia or at least a much worse society,

This premise seems a stretch when applying it to Google. Most of us "sell our souls" to more-or-less terrible corporations for money. The point with Google is that it set much higher standards for corporate behavior, and those standards are now reverting to mean.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#883

Post by _heimdall » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 1:34 PM UTC

Dudester230602 wrote: post #38

alberth wrote: post #13

> “Much of these problems with Google today stem from a lack of visionary leadership from Sundar Pichai, and his clear lack of interest in maintaining the cultural norms of early Google.” Ouch. I know a lot of outsiders believe that, but to have someone who spent 2-decades at Google saying it publicly is rough.

I think Pichai tries his best within his abilities, maybe it's time to pay attention to the ones who had chosen him?

It may be more helpful to pay attention to the ones leaving him in charge if its clear his abilities may not be the right fit.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#884

Post by bayindirh » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 1:35 PM UTC

wyclif wrote: post #664

Aeolun wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s weird that Gmail never reached that point. Even years later it’s still the same it was 10 years ago. I think after inbox died I just gave up on it and moved to fastmail.

I understand what you're saying (I miss Inbox, too). But end users like sameness and "it just works." Normies prefer stability over innovation when they are trying to get stuff done.

Inbox was not deterministic. It's like a social media feed for your e-mail. I'd rather have my mails left as-is, and allow me to work with them the way I want.

You don't have to be a "normie" to appreciate simple or old fashioned things. Most of the e-mails I receive is not for quick-consumption, and I prefer the standard way over Inbox's way.

Maybe it was a solution trying to find a problem, IDK. I used it for 30 minutes tops.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#885

Post by pas » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 1:37 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #766

pas wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you give a few examples of what kind of bad ideas? like everyone should do all nighters or let's use email as the only login, no need for password for the first iteration, we will fix it later, or ... ?

It’s been long enough that I’ve successfully blocked a lot out, but it all kind of started because she put some terrible bullshit velocity graph up in a staff meeting that made our good weeks look like bad weeks and bad weeks look good. Derailed the whole meeting as people explained project management to a project manager. Then the next staff meeting she put up the same graph. We explained five better ways to display…

oh, that seems like a rare breed. (at least in my comfy bubble.) thanks!

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#886

Post by vitiral » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 1:38 PM UTC

Larry and Sergey just need to come back from their vacation and clean house. So much of Google culture used their humor and candidness at TGIF as a lighthouse.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#887

Post by gniv » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 1:40 PM UTC

mrb wrote: post #522

I too believe the company has entered a phase of stagnancy or even decline. In fact, so much that two weeks ago I put my money where my mouth is by selling $1M worth of GOOG I was given as part of a stock grant when I was hired by Google in 2014. (I promptly reinvested this capital in a generic S&P 500 index fund.) From 2014 to mid 2015, when I quit, I found Google had a great engineering culture and I loved my time…

I commend you for going against the grain and holding onto the stock for so long. Most people sell as soon as the options vest.

Anyway, I don't see much worrisome news about GOOG. It's true that they are not innovating and surprising us anymore, but neither is AAPL or AMZN. Good execution seems to be rewarded better nowadays than innovation. (Yes, some products are stagnating or getting worse, but some are getting better. I'm not sure there's really a trend. Also, to me, all this culture decline talk is mostly noise.)

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#888

Post by robin_reala » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 1:43 PM UTC

berkes wrote: post #870

piyush_soni wrote: post #840

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then again, everyone says Google is evil to have made their own browser, but most of the world is using it - one would guess they must have done some good things with it (so taking humanity forward in some capacity etc.). Some are even criticizing Google from its own browser - I hate the fact that it made Firefox lose their market share, but I also understand it can't all be because the big corp brainwashed every…

IE6 was the browser "most of the world used" too. But really, surely, there was absolutely nothing done well in it. The only reason it was the most used browser was monopoly abuse. And while we can discuss the exact terminology of "a monopoly" and whether the Ie6 hegemony fit in there theoretically, that it came with the most used OS, really was the only reason it was popular. With Chrome it is different. But at leas…

That’s not true. When IE6 launched it was definitely the fastest of its contemporary competitors. The problem with IE6 was not that it was bad at launch, but that it wasn’t touched for five years after launch, and didn’t properly disappear until 2016 or so.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#889

Post by Vt71fcAqt7 » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 1:45 PM UTC

lurker919 wrote: post #624

throwaway678808 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in the org that Jeanine now runs. It had a series of bad-to-disastrous leaders at the Director, VP, and SVP level. To call out Jeanine and only Jeanine in language this harsh feels wrong. From my recollection and from what I have heard from people still working there, she is par for the course. Also I am almost never the person to bring this kind of thing up but ... there aren't a lot of other black women in…

[flagged]

So you think he left a (very) well paying job, working on a project that he created and has been building for nine years, one that he is now working on for no pay, just because a black woman became his manager? I dare say you are subconsciously biased, perhaps consciously biased. Subconsciously biased in that you won't even allow yourself to consider the possibilty that a black woman could be a bad manager, so bad that it would cause a prolific engineer like Ian to leave, and consciously biased in that you then actively jump to resolve your subconscious bias' flaw with reality with racism.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#890

Post by gniv » Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 1:52 PM UTC

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #203

I think the post is spot on, but I don't agree with naming names especially when the other person doesn't get an opportunity to tell their side of the story. What if Ian's manager posted her own nasty missive criticizing him as an employee? Such things can damage someone's future career without any fair process to sort out the facts. I wouldn't at all be surprised that such manager exists and is not being held accoun…

It doesn't even matter whether the critique is true and fair. Naming names like this in public is potentially very damaging and should not be done.