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I wish GPT4 had never happened

chaudhry.notion.site

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Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#881

Post by chii »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #425
chii wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income. that system was called communism, and so far, it has not had any of the success that those envisioning it had wanted. I cannot see how ownership of the output of automation and AI could be distributed evenly. At best, the people being made obsolete would be given food stamps and the barest of life's necessities so they don't die in the street…

> Until the day humanity discovers how to obtain a post-scarcity society, all income must directly be linked to labour. What are you talking about? Our economic system's very name describes who gets income without they themselves doing labor. The entire point of capitalism is that the capital-owning class gets to profit from the labor of others. So no, we don't have all income linked to labor. The income of capitalis…

> The income of capitalists sure as heck isn't.

but where did the capitalists first got their capital? Why with labour of course! Their own labour, or their family's, or their grand-parent, etc.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#882

Post by hintymad »

Serious question: why are we not concerned about losing manufacturing jobs for decades? They caused great pains to our nation, right? They weakened our nation too to the point that China seems unstoppable, right? How is that job loss different than this job loss?

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#883

Post by czbond »

namarie wrote: post #725
czbond wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i believed people want meaning, and might not need a job until Covid. Many people have no intrinsic drive - and a "get to work to earn it" provides this. The lockdowns, at least in the U.S., caused people to improve themselves surely - but they then had no idea how to fill their time and binge watched TV, watched Tik Tok, etc.

So forcing people to either get a job or be poor is for their own good, then? Just because you don't agree with how people chose to spend their time in a very nerve-wracking situation? This sounds very condescending.

Work and purpose is good & a necessity. I'm suggesting through large cultural observation, many are poor at finding purpose in anything besides work and become destitute and negatively influence themselves.

A large number of retirees find themselves in this bucket as an example - if it happens there, why would it not happen no matter the life stage?

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#884

Post by flangola7 »

nullsense wrote: post #849
zamnos wrote: post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that USA's brand of late-stage capitalism is even considered capitalism is an even more damning indictment of our education system. Somewhere between Feudalism and Karl Marx, Adam Smith is spinning in his grave. How much we don't have capitalism and are living, globally, under an oligopoly, replete with robber barons in tech clothes; one can only laugh at. The amount of misery under "capitalism" says there's…

>The amount of misery under "capitalism" says there's got to be a better way. I'm not quite sure why people think that a misery free world ought to be possible and/or the default.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Obviously we should try to reduce misery when we can. There's no lack of it on this planet

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#885

Post by kelseyfrog »

chii wrote: post #881
kelseyfrog wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Until the day humanity discovers how to obtain a post-scarcity society, all income must directly be linked to labour. What are you talking about? Our economic system's very name describes who gets income without they themselves doing labor. The entire point of capitalism is that the capital-owning class gets to profit from the labor of others. So no, we don't have all income linked to labor. The income of capitalis…

> The income of capitalists sure as heck isn't. but where did the capitalists first got their capital? Why with labour of course! Their own labour, or their family's, or their grand-parent, etc.

I don't think that has any bearing on the response.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#886

Post by dirkt »

surgical_fire wrote: post #156

Funny thing - I've been using ChatGPT as a programming assistant. My experience with it is that the more knowledgeable I am at the domain, the more useful it is. It often generates code that won't compile or won't run correctly, but that sort of goes in the correct direction, enough that I can spot the blunders and refine my questions. Quite often I even learn a few new things when using it to explore libraries and f…

So if you have to babysit it anyway (which is actually a correct way of using it, instead of getting fooled into assuming it's an expert: Use ChatGPT for brainstorming, have a human in the loop to validate): Wouldn't it be faster to write the code yourself?

And if you have to come up with the code yourself, wouldn't that allow you to come up with a better architecture for your whole project?

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#887

Post by s__s »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #852
s__s wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As soon as you rely on UBI to live you’ve lost all control of your own life. Your a child with an allowance. The state has absolute authority over you. The government is already controlled and influenced primarily by nefarious interests. I can’t even begin to imagine how nasty it gets when the entire population relies on them for mere sustenance.

It doesn't have to be that way. For one thing, you don't need to means test it. Just give the same amount of money to everyone. Then if you work you still end up ahead. So no dis-incentive to work. For another, if implemented properly the amount would go down if production declined, or up if production increases. This way it's self-correcting in the aggregate. As people leave the workforce, the UBI goes down, nudging…

Yes. That’s why UBI is a neat idea as a replacement or enhancement for welfare, and other social services. That’s not the context in which we’re discussing it though. We’re discussing it as an alternative to work in a world where almost all human jobs have been automated. In that context it’s not a good solution, and in fact it’s dangerous because it leaves everyone reliant (and obedient) to the government, and a select few mega corps.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#888

Post by tekknik »

simonh wrote: post #703
mertd wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are very good at creating work. Every time tech creates a paradigm shift and people cry that there will be not enough work, the exact opposite happens.

Exactly, we’ve been automating the living crap out of almost everything for hundreds of years, but employment has never been higher. Automation leads to higher productivity, cheaper goods and services, increased need for technical skills, thus higher wages and higher demand. Of course there can be some painful periods of adjustment, but that’s often caused by misguided policy trying to hold back the tide and delay th…

> painful periods of adjustment

sure like hunger, losing houses, unable to have kids or send them to decent schools or schools at all. but totally worth it right?

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#889

Post by 876978095789789 »

simonw wrote: post #465
benatkin wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has that covered IMO. He talks at length about how he's not confident about his own career in the long run. So while he starts off talking about the AI doing one person's job, he makes it clear that he doesn't just think that about entry level workers.

He talked about his own fears: I want to hear Priya's opinion.

> He talked about his own fears: I want to hear Priya's opinion.

Why? Either he's right about GPT or he's wrong, and if he's right (which I think he is) and she disagrees, then she's probably just in denial, like so many HNers who aren't worried about their job, let alone worried about protecting themselves from the massive societal disruption this tech is likely to usher in.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#890

Post by tekknik »

sandworm101 wrote: post #689
qaq wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say biggest displacement would be in IT, Insurance/Financial Services, Creative, legal, Thats not even 10% of the work force and it would prob. take a decade for it to fully play out.

It is only a displacement if one assume that the total demand will remain the same, that professionals will be replaced by the cheaper AI while the total volume of work needing to be done remains steady. Take law, there are a great many legal activities that are not done today because of the cost of entry. AI will make lawyers cheaper. That will meant previous tasks that were forgone due to costs will now be financia…

This isn’t the greatest example as there’s some glaring issues. With more small claims taking up the court’s time then how will we have time to litigate actual important matters? Will we then have to result to AI judges? Slippery slope.
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