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Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

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Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#881

I'm so sick of crime in the Bay. We need to be way tougher on crime. Immediate life sentences without parole for murder, ending catch+release for property theft. The mere thought of stealing, or attacking a stranger, or dealing drugs illegally, must become so unappetizing that they simply refuse to do it even when they have no other options.

Capital punishment for murder. You take a life, yours is gone. On top of justice, you don’t stick the taxpayer with lifelong care of a murderer.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#882

I'm so sick of crime in the Bay. We need to be way tougher on crime. Immediate life sentences without parole for murder, ending catch+release for property theft. The mere thought of stealing, or attacking a stranger, or dealing drugs illegally, must become so unappetizing that they simply refuse to do it even when they have no other options.

Few criminals consider the consequences of their actions. As crappy as it feels, harsher sentences just don't work.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#883

I'm so sick of crime in the Bay. We need to be way tougher on crime. Immediate life sentences without parole for murder, ending catch+release for property theft. The mere thought of stealing, or attacking a stranger, or dealing drugs illegally, must become so unappetizing that they simply refuse to do it even when they have no other options.

The event that sparked all this conversation is the homicide of Bob Lee. If we're talking about the problem of car break-ins, robberies, or vandalism, that's one thing. But on the matter of homicide, SF (6.35)¹ tracks closely to the national average (7.8)².

Property crime is what substantially contributes to the image that SF is an unsafe city.

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[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

[2]: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#884

I come from Ciudad Juarez. Between 2008-2011, the city was the murder capital in the world and basically unlivable. My brother and I were no longer living there because we were in college. My parents decided to send my sister, then starting highschool, to a city in central Mexico with friends of the family to avoid having her grow up in what was a life and death environment. My parents stayed. Mexicans speak a lot ab…

San Francisco has been ceding its monopoly of violence for years if not decades.

Trends suggest otherwise: https://www.ppic.org/publication/crime-trends-in-california/

The big peak in violent crime in the 1990s is the crack epidemic. I personally saw driveby shooting attacks and personal murders in broad daylight; 24th street (and the Mission in general) used to be considered a no-go area by folk in better-off neighborhoods.

It seems to me that the basic problem in SF is wealth disparity. The city is a great place to make money if you are in the finance or tech industries and have decent social skills. But the wealth that stays in SF tends to build upward rather than lift up less well off neighborhoods. Not only is housing expensive, community space for weird stores/art galleries/music events is also at a premium, which severely limits avenues for grey market enterprise and social mixing/mobility. The unorganized crime exists because regular jobs are not that profitable and there's a large and deliberately-created (at the federal level) underclass of undocumented people with no straightforward path to legal workforce participation.

SF was a remarkably different city prior to 9-11, which ushered in a securocratic mindset in many respects. A simple but telling example is that nearly BART stations used to have toilets, though as you might expect some of them were nasty. After 9-11, these were closed in the name of security, a 'temporary' situation which has persisted for over 20 years. Concession stands like news/candy/flower vendors gradually vanished too, along with buskers. Subway stations stopped being part of the city's social life in favor of pure transit functionality. Likewise bus stops now have all sorts of built-in tech to tell you when the next bus is arriving in 20 different languages, but the bus shelters are deliberately constructed not to provide any shelter from the elements, or even make it easy to sit down.

The state (qua city government) very much maintains its monopoly on violence; police budgets have gone up rather than down. It's just selectively enforced because the police are themselves a political constituency who compete with other agencies for funding.

https://abc7news.com/sfpd-budget-defund-the-police-departmen...

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#885

I'm so sick of crime in the Bay. We need to be way tougher on crime. Immediate life sentences without parole for murder, ending catch+release for property theft. The mere thought of stealing, or attacking a stranger, or dealing drugs illegally, must become so unappetizing that they simply refuse to do it even when they have no other options.

Yeah. Makes total sense. That's why the wild west was crime free, because everyone feared the retributive punishments...

People don't pull out a knife then think "wait, but I'll be punished" and put the knife away. What you are proposing feels good but in no way lines up with the reality of society in a contemporary city. If you want there to be less crime you have to treat it as the social class problem it is and find ways to get people access to other ways of living, or if they're ill (mentally or otherwise) get them care and shelter.

That, or we can continue to price people out of being healthy members of our social strata. It's clearly going great in SF

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#887

I'm so sick of crime in the Bay. We need to be way tougher on crime. Immediate life sentences without parole for murder, ending catch+release for property theft. The mere thought of stealing, or attacking a stranger, or dealing drugs illegally, must become so unappetizing that they simply refuse to do it even when they have no other options.

Capital punishment for murder. You take a life, yours is gone. On top of justice, you don’t stick the taxpayer with lifelong care of a murderer.

Plus how cruel is it to stick a human in a box for 60 years? Rapists and murderers are dangerous animals, and we put dangerous animals down.

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#888

Could someone please enlighten me on why we don't treat governing like we do software solutions? When I'm given a task to complete, my first instinct is to find where other developers have done what I'm asked to do and then utilize their wisdom into my own solution which will likely look very similar to theirs. Why do we see such drastically different approaches to solving issues in society and government? Want bette…

I wonder, do livable minimum wages and affordable healthcare / education / housing have any significant effect on crime rates?

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#889
San Francisco is a lost cause for a generation. The political machine that controls it does not care at all about the life of the average person. They live in gated communities on private streets. They even screwed over the guy who bought the private street and started charging them tolls. https://news.yahoo.com/rich-san-francisco-residents-got-1754...

I wish a political party existed in the United States that represented my definition of "normal people". One that wasn't focused on fascism/marginalizing people who are different but also cared about middle out economics by supporting policies that deregulate, spur industry, create jobs...

Re: Bob Lee, former CTO of Square, has died after being stabbed in San Francisco

#890

I'm so sick of crime in the Bay. We need to be way tougher on crime. Immediate life sentences without parole for murder, ending catch+release for property theft. The mere thought of stealing, or attacking a stranger, or dealing drugs illegally, must become so unappetizing that they simply refuse to do it even when they have no other options.

Tougher sentences have almost a zero effect on crime. Somebody who isn't worried about a 25 year sentence for murder isn't going to worry about a life sentence.

Far more effective is to increase the chances of getting caught & prosecuted. A guaranteed 10 year sentence for murder is far more effective than a life sentence when you believe you won't get caught.

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