‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#881

Post by wrp » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 10:49 AM UTC

tdeck wrote: post #662

scarmig wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s so hard to eat healthy, I honestly cannot fathom how people do it. When I started taking semaglutide, I finally understood it. I'd eat a salad... and be full and more than satisfied! I'd look at a muffin right after lunch, and go "eh, better things to do with my time" instead of immediately having an overriding desire to eat eat eat. Before, I could eat half a pizza and still be hungry (way out of what my body…

> Too many people are convinced that everyone has the same subjective experiences of hunger and craving, but it's simply not the case. Some people implicitly hold this idea because it's a convenient ideology that allows people to morally congratulate themselves for having a functioning satiety circuit. As someone who's always been thin and doesn't have a strong appetite, I couldn't agree more. I'm just enough outside…

I've known a few women with metabolism like yours. They actually had to work at keeping their body weight up. Their friends envied their slim figures, but it was a genuine health concern for them.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#882

Post by astrange » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 10:56 AM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #788

komali2 wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Plenty of young and healthy people died of COVID. Only some vaccines are mRNA types, and, in the USA anyway, all vaccines went through the same testing process as any other medication, they simply sped the process up by layering some of the steps - all that means is that rather than wait to see if one study passes before doing the next one (save money or whatever), they just overlapped them. Even for MRNA vaccin…

>all vaccines went through the same testing process as any other medication, they simply sped the process up by layering some of the steps - all that means is that rather than wait to see if one study passes before doing the next one (save money or whatever), they just overlapped them This is misinformation. The normal process involves at least 4-5 years of observation to identify long-term side effects; you can't sp…

Vaccines don’t have long term side effects. They have short term side effects.

And if they did have long term side effects, we’d observe them in the trials because they’d occur in the short term at a low probability.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by lm28469 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 10:59 AM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #152

rajin444 wrote: post #56

This drug is a net good for society, but we have to fix the root problem. Much of the food we eat is filled with addictive ingredients (sugar, excess fats/oils, etc) that provide little nutritional value but are highly addictive. We’re subsidizing companies that create unhealthy addictive food and subsidizing companies to create drugs to counter the unhealthy addictive food. This is an enormous waste of resources.

Disagree. People genuinely enjoy those foods, because they're tasty and flavorful. And there's zero reason to believe that they're substantially unhealthy unless consumed to the point of sustained caloric surplus. We know this because we have hunter-gatherer populations who consume 50% of their diets in sugar (e.g. the Hadza) or fats (e.g. Intuit), and they have none of the diseases of abundance found in modern popul…

> Disagree. People genuinely enjoy those foods, because they're tasty and flavorful. And there's zero reason to believe that they're substantially unhealthy

I mean, there are responsible/functioning heroin users, it doesn't mean heroin is safe for everyone

> If we can cure obesity

Or you know, practice self control, which is easily in the top 3 of good traits to have and practice. But that's only a part of the equation, the other being the food industry abusing our monkey brains by adding all kind of additives to their food to trigger the right pathways so that we keep consuming their products.

I for one am happy that I escaped this hellish cycle and mostly consume fresh products, but I completely understand how people get tricked into eating heavily processed food and basically slowly sabotage their whole body

> Humans obviously value tasty and flavorful food, and its existence adds joy to people's lives.

We also enjoy all kind of things that cause harm to ourselves or others, this is an extremely weak argument, maybe the weakest of all concerning that topic

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by lm28469 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 11:02 AM UTC

nostrebored wrote: post #293

sschueller wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that if you cut all sugar for just 2 days things with very little sugar will taste very sweet? We do not need the excessive amount of sugar in our food to fully enjoy it. The general public is just totally numb to it because of over consumption and companies are literally competing on having the sweater product.

This is an extreme hyperbole. While this does happen, it takes much more like 4-8w in my experience.

> it takes much more like 4-8w in my experience.

Such a little price to pay to save your body from horrible side effects

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#885

Post by lm28469 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 11:04 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #537

beloch wrote: post #316

Thought experiment: A drug* that reduces people's weight and massively boosts physical fitness with no negative side effects is discovered. The discoverer of that drug declines to patent it, making it a cheap generic available everywhere. What would your reaction be? Take a moment to consider what your reaction is before continuing. ... The comments I'm reading here are diverse and fascinating. Weight loss, diet, and…

> discipline and hard work (or genetic luck) Let me tell you, the number of thin people I've met who got there through discipline and hard work is vanishingly small compared to those genetically blessed. This is probably why it's such an appealing delusion -- who doesn't want the world to think they're disciplined and hardworking, instead of just lucky?

> instead of just lucky?`

People who stay "fit" and hit a lot are the opposite of lucky, they probably have thyroid issues or other similar issues that will cause more serious problems down the road.

People who think they're lucky are obese with a food addiction problem

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by lm28469 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 11:05 AM UTC

Auracle wrote: post #812

rootusrootus wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> discipline and hard work (or genetic luck) Let me tell you, the number of thin people I've met who got there through discipline and hard work is vanishingly small compared to those genetically blessed. This is probably why it's such an appealing delusion -- who doesn't want the world to think they're disciplined and hardworking, instead of just lucky?

How do you know they got it through being "genetically blessed" and not just...putting the fork down? In my experience a lot of skinny people don't outwardly signal that they're "dieting" because they're literally always dieting.

> because they're literally always dieting.

And that's called an healthy lifestyle

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

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Post by hawski » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 11:05 AM UTC

jfk13 wrote: post #553

0xB31B1B wrote: post #21

I’m currently taking one of these drugs and it has been no less than a miracle in my life. I became obese when I was around 5, topping out around a 34 BMI. When I was 20 I lost a substantial amount of weight the old fashioned way (diet and exercise), and within 8 months I was BMI 23. Losing weight was extremely challenging and socially isolating. 7 years later, I had a bad ankle injury and regained weight to about 29…

> everyone, even the skinny folks, should be on GLP1 drugs Seriously? No thanks. Think I'll give you all a few decades to see what the long-term effects are like, and let my body largely take care of itself except when specific medical issues indicate that an intervention is in order.

I'm not exactly skinny as I have some muscle mass, still I'm pretty thin. I do not have to think about restricting calories and I'm still that way. I do not like to eat much sweets, I preferred a schnitzel since I was a child, so that's one thing. But sometimes I get a huge hunger when I feel my body trembling.

I do think that if there would be famine I would just die. I also don't think it would be good for me to restrict caloric intake. There are certainly ways to make my diet healthier, but caloric restriction is not it.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#888

Post by drowsspa » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 11:13 AM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #758

drowsspa wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I got to this stage where people lose their cravings. While I'm at home I can control my diet pretty well, but as soon as there's junk food in front of me I look like a pig. And I've lost like 30 pounds, to put it into perspective.

I don't think the cravings go away exactly; you just layer a mild (defensive?) eating disorder on top. For example, when I eat valueless empty carbs, the waves of depression & the feeling of dread in the pit of my stomach prevent me from even tasting it or enjoying it. Winning...? It's a strange, thin line to walk. Trans fats are unhealthy in any quantity, so I refuse to eat them. But they are still (secretly) all ov…

I'd count that as the cravings stopping. I feel just as shitty afterwards when I eat junk food, both psychologically and physiologically, yet I can't resist to it when it's readily available.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#889

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 11:15 AM UTC

vjk800 wrote: post #848

ceejayoz wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is too dismissive, and internally inconsistent. These drugs are not the solution for all people, but they may well be a part of it for many. The interventions you're advising - "don't snack", "exercise more", have the same pattern you're talking about with dieting - alone, they tend to fail in the long-term. It's easier to learn to eat better (and enjoy things like veggies) if you're not feeling starving…

Is the drug a long-term solution either, though? Won't the users regain the weight after stopping the drug, exactly like people who stop dieting do? The trick with all lifestyle changes is to start as small as possible. Don't try to overhaul your eating and exercising habits overnight, but instead start from something small like "buy some fresh fruits every time you buy groceries" or "go outside for a bit every day w…

The long term solution is to not stop the drug. Unlike sticking to a diet, this is reasonably easy to do.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#890

Post by _dain_ » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 11:19 AM UTC

Auracle wrote: post #803

scarmig wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s so hard to eat healthy, I honestly cannot fathom how people do it. When I started taking semaglutide, I finally understood it. I'd eat a salad... and be full and more than satisfied! I'd look at a muffin right after lunch, and go "eh, better things to do with my time" instead of immediately having an overriding desire to eat eat eat. Before, I could eat half a pizza and still be hungry (way out of what my body…

I'm sorry, but I'm a decently in shape person that tried semaglutide for reasons other than losing weight and I disagree. While I'm sure we all are a bit different satiety wise (and I've found it greatly depends on how much I've been eating overall recently), your experience on the drug is not what the rest of us feel like all the time. It's unfortunately normal for our biology to basically want to shove calories dow…

>It's unfortunately normal for our biology to basically want to shove calories down our mouths all the time.

Not for me.

>I consciously pace my food intake every single day. I just had a huge plate of nachos, some christmas cookies, and a pickle...and I could still eat more. The only reason I ate that much is because I feel a cold coming on so I relaxed my usual limits.

This is completely alien to my experience.

I eat until I get full, then I stop eating. I do not have any difficulty whatsoever maintaining a healthy weight. I don't think about calories at all. I have no idea how many calories or nutrients are in anything I eat; I've never paid attention to the that part of the label. It does not enter my mind for even a moment.

Sometimes I exercise regularly, sometimes I slip and get lazy for a while. Sometimes I eat a lot of fast food, sometimes I pull myself together and make better stuff at home. Throughout all this, my weight does not noticeably budge at all. I've been 20-22 BMI for my whole adult life.

>Almost all of us work for it. Truth be told, and please hold your downvotes for this, I get a little upset when the rest of you get to have insurance pay ridiculous sums of money for a medication that makes it easier for you than the rest of us, side effects aside, and you think it's simply evening out the playing field.

I didn't work for it. It doesn't mean I'm a good and diligent person, it means I got lucky with my biochemistry and genetics. In another life, a different sperm would have met a different egg and I'd end up with different alleles and I'd end up fat.

It isn't fair that I'm living my life on diet easy-mode. If semaglutide can replicate this for people who aren't so genetically lucky, that's a fucking miracle.