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FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

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Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#881

Post by kebman »

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #324
kebman wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever it needs to do becomes different based on how your country is governed. China has unelected* leaders that at least in theory holds only Communist ideals. While flawed, in a republic at least you get to vote for your leaders, and thus choose what ideals you like the best. Of course republicanism or democracy does not preclude a country from committing horrible acts, but they are cleaned up much sooner, and th…

The US also runs on an authoritarian single party system, it's just that with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.

No it doesn't. Except for cancel culture (which isn't state run btw), you can say and think almost whatever you like in the USA so long as it isn't prejudiced or harassing. You are also not punished for starting other parties in the USA, since it's completely legal. Thus there are alternatives to the Democrats and Republicans. The First Past the Post system just means that that it's extremely unlikely that alternatives will ever challenge the biggest two. Other than that the American system is decidedly liberal and free.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#882

Post by _emacsomancer_ »

kebman wrote: post #881
_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US also runs on an authoritarian single party system, it's just that with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.

No it doesn't. Except for cancel culture (which isn't state run btw), you can say and think almost whatever you like in the USA so long as it isn't prejudiced or harassing. You are also not punished for starting other parties in the USA, since it's completely legal. Thus there are alternatives to the Democrats and Republicans. The First Past the Post system just means that that it's extremely unlikely that alternativ…

"Other than in [any way that matters materially] the American system is decidedly liberal and free."

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#883

Post by kebman »

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #882
kebman wrote: post #881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. Except for cancel culture (which isn't state run btw), you can say and think almost whatever you like in the USA so long as it isn't prejudiced or harassing. You are also not punished for starting other parties in the USA, since it's completely legal. Thus there are alternatives to the Democrats and Republicans. The First Past the Post system just means that that it's extremely unlikely that alternativ…

"Other than in [any way that matters materially] the American system is decidedly liberal and free."

Can you please expand upon how the American political system isn't free in any way that matters materially?

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#884

Post by roenxi »

roberttod wrote: post #809
roenxi wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story of appeasement was basically that the Nazis kept invading places, country after country, until they tried to take on the USSR and got transformed into paste (the US getting involved being a major factor). It was really quite breathtaking in hindsight because they wouldn't stop and obviously didn't intend to stop, ever. gp's argument has no parallel to appeasement.

> treating countries as though they are enemies can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It can increase the threat rather than decrease it. That's what I was referring to. Not appeasement exactly but seems like similar logic.

That logic is nothing like appeasement. Or if it is then appeasement is a great strategy that we should all be using daily at all levels of societal organisation.

Making enemies of people who are not enemies is one of the stupidest moves imaginable. It is hard to overstate how mistaken that sort of mistake would be.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#885

Post by _emacsomancer_ »

kebman wrote: post #883
_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Other than in [any way that matters materially] the American system is decidedly liberal and free."

Can you please expand upon how the American political system isn't free in any way that matters materially?

For starters: https://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison_popul...

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#886

Post by kebman »

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #885
kebman wrote: post #883

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please expand upon how the American political system isn't free in any way that matters materially?

For starters: https://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison_popul...

What has that got to do with the political system in the USA? You have every opportunity of changing how American prisons are organized by participating in the political system. Nobody will jail you for having an opinion about it, or campaigning for prison reform, or hell, even legal reforms in general. Not so in China. If you criticize the state there, you do indeed risk jail, if you don't just suddenly vanish. The main difference here is that the USA has a largely liberal system, while China has an authoritarian one. Good luck surviving (!) in China if you have a strong political opinion about any issue pertaining to their state or their leadership. One of the main differences between the American and the Chinese system is that scrutiny and criticism is welcomed as a means of making things better in the USA, while it is punished in the People's Republic.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#887

Post by _emacsomancer_ »

kebman wrote: post #886
_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For starters: https://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison_popul...

What has that got to do with the political system in the USA? You have every opportunity of changing how American prisons are organized by participating in the political system. Nobody will jail you for having an opinion about it, or campaigning for prison reform, or hell, even legal reforms in general. Not so in China. If you criticize the state there, you do indeed risk jail, if you don't just suddenly vanish. The…

> You have every opportunity of changing how American prisons are organized by participating in the political system.

How so? Both parties are all in on the prison-industrial scam. Likewise for healthcare, etc. I agree that the US has a largely 'liberal' system, in the classical sense of 'liberal'. I.e. capital trumps human beings.

And you ignore the fact that the US imprisons a much higher percentage of its population than other countries. Part and parcel of the authoritarianism (which is only increasing).

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#888

Post by FpUser »

_-david-_ wrote: post #872
FpUser wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"The US is better for the world and the people under its control than China" Once again you are pushing a choice that should not be there in a first place. I do not want to choose between either. Period. If you let any country run free and control the others it will devolve to a dictator. So I prefer to have the US, Europe, China, BRICS and whatever else is coming.

I will ask you again: Do you have any historical examples where this has happened? Please don't bring up a time when there were multiple major powers but they were so far away they couldn't reach the other, assuming they even knew the other existed.

Unless one's blind it is happening right now

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#889

Post by kebman »

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #887
kebman wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has that got to do with the political system in the USA? You have every opportunity of changing how American prisons are organized by participating in the political system. Nobody will jail you for having an opinion about it, or campaigning for prison reform, or hell, even legal reforms in general. Not so in China. If you criticize the state there, you do indeed risk jail, if you don't just suddenly vanish. The…

> You have every opportunity of changing how American prisons are organized by participating in the political system. How so? Both parties are all in on the prison-industrial scam. Likewise for healthcare, etc. I agree that the US has a largely 'liberal' system, in the classical sense of 'liberal'. I.e. capital trumps human beings. And you ignore the fact that the US imprisons a much higher percentage of its populati…

Welcome to democracy! As a minority opinion you will naturally not be able to force the majority to accept yours. If you did, that would be authoritarian and evil... You're still allowed to voice that opinion, however (within very liberal limits). For instance you can involve yourself more directly within the parties and run for various political positions, write petitions, become a member of pressure or lobby groups, arrange demonstrations, and many other things. Hell, you can even pointlessly troll discussions here on YT with political straw man arguments! And because you live in The Land of the Free nobody will jail you for it! This is why the American system is liberal and the Chinese system is not. But good luck on making prison reform in the USA. God knows they need it!

Edit: To answer your claim that:

> “(...) the US imprisons a much higher percentage of its population than other countries. Part and parcel of the authoritarianism.”

No, it's not. Every guilty prisoner in the USA had a public trial with a lawyer before they were sent to jail. In other words they had due process which is the mark of a liberal democracy. On the other hand due process is constantly broken in authoritarian regimes. A great example is, again, China, where you can be "vanished" just for having the wrong opinion, if you're not simply sent to a re-education camp that is for all intents and purposes a modern style of concentration camp.

Before you even try, can the USA be accused of the same thing? Why yes, because it imprisons enemy combatants which are then subjected to cruel an unusual treatment, for instance at Guantanamo Bay (which is amazingly still open for business). But crucially the USA does not do this to American citizens, so while they act horribly authoritarian towards external enemies, they do not act authoritarian against their own citizens, not even towards domestic political opponents.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#890

Post by _-david-_ »

FpUser wrote: post #888
_-david-_ wrote: post #872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will ask you again: Do you have any historical examples where this has happened? Please don't bring up a time when there were multiple major powers but they were so far away they couldn't reach the other, assuming they even knew the other existed.

Unless one's blind it is happening right now

I believe it is temporary. China is massively build up their military and are consistently threatening their neighbors. I believe it is just a matter of time until war occurs.

Also, you are advocating for more than 2 blocks. As far as I can tell there are only two super powers right now.

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