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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#881

Post by oezi »

ipaddr wrote: post #587
oezi wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we should have strived to get everyone vaccinated (by making it mandatory) and then this pandemic would be over in Europe. "Opening up" would have killed more people than it killed in the UK. The people driving this wave, who are getting seriously ill and dying are the unvaccinated.

How would you enforce this mandatory vaccine? Would you go as far as killing the unvaccinated?

Like you enforce anything: by passing a law which makes it mandatory, by introducing a fine and by assigning somebody to monitor it.

It is not going to be a crime to be unvaccinated just a lot more inconvenient.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#882

Post by Krasnol »

daddylongstroke wrote: post #830
Krasnol wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So true and not mentioned enough by the media. This is nonsense. The topic has been in the news almost from the beginning of the crisis. The government is being constantly criticised for that. Why do you people repeat this? It's a lie. The fact that this topic is now being used by anti-vaxxers to cloud their anti-social behaviour and shift the growing anger of the vaccinated population away from them is ridiculous.…

Why are the vaccinated so threatened by the non-vaccinated in Germany? Why the anger? Why the fear?

Have you been locked up somewhere for the last 2 years or are you trolling me?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#883

Post by TheRealNGenius »

cheeseomlit wrote: post #318
wolverine876 wrote: post #119

I would be very happy if my government did the same. What a relief it would be! It's a public health measure, like public sanitation requirements, and driving a car that meets safety requirements. Unvaccinated people should be free to do whatever they want, short of risking infecting other people. Your freedom ends where your fist ends and my nose begins.

>Your freedom ends where your fist ends and my nose begins. The governments freedom ends where my epidermis begins.

I resonate with this quote like a piano does a tuning fork.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#884

Post by disambiguation »

Teknoman117 wrote: post #628
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #531

I think the biggest unsung problems in this saga, is actually one of marketing. The average person has experience with vaccines that have 3 properties: (1) long lasting, (2) prevent contagion (3) and major symptoms. By calling the mRNA shot a vaccine , the WHO and CDC transferred such properties to the shot. That may have been great for encouraging adoption, but also comes with consequences particularly if two vaccin…

Right. Even knowing the facts it's hard to not buy into the hype to some degree. In the end, the only things I personally care about regarding the benefits of any vaccine are: 1) not having some horrible/painful/debilitating long term condition from getting sick 2) not dying 3) not spreading it to others Even if the marketing said it would only prevent severe disease but you'd still catch it just as easily, I'd have…

It's primarily trust, or lackthereof.

Some of its political, and some of its misinformation.

But mainly people think their governments are either being dishonest or incompetent, or some combination of both. I'll let you decide whether you think that's justified.

But my point is this, when you lose trust in the experts to tell you right from wrong, you will instead resort to making sense of the world by your own ability. Therein lies a whole class of problems that lead to conspiracies and alt remedies.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#885

Post by [deleted] »

dham wrote: post #523
est31 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany had elections at the end of September, and I feel that this is the main reason for the catastrophy that is unfolding now. It has prevented the ruling parties from imposing stricter vaccination requirements more early on. They could have easily required everyone to be vaccinated by November first, and this current situation would have been spared. Now the government still has to do it, but they need to rush it…

Everyone will get this virus. Countries that do good now will do bad later and countries that did bad now we do good later. It's all inevitable. All you can do is take it on the chin or delay it. Every country has predetermined number based on their population demographics and health, that they will hit and there's no thing we can do about it.

[deleted]

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#886

Post by disambiguation »

timdaub wrote: post #282
Animats wrote: post #200

Understand, we're in the second epidemic and headed for the third. Plans made on the basis of the original virus may not be valid. "The enemy get a vote", as the military says. The original virus had a R0 rate of about 3, that is, in normal conditions, each infected person infects three others. That's about what the first generation of vaccines could control well enough that eventually the virus would die out. The de…

Delta's R0 isn't 8 [1] - 1: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34369565/#:~:text=The%20Delt... .

> Given that the reproductive number in the studies identified here was estimated at a time when most countries still enforce a variable extent of lockdown measures, there is a risk that the real reproductive number may be even higher than the estimated 5.08.

It sounds like 5 is the optimistic measure.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#887

Post by disambiguation »

lillecarl wrote: post #6
TechBro8615 wrote: post #5

I’m confused. I thought vaccinated people can spread the virus. Why are they not locked down too?

Because the risk of transmission is understood to be significantly lower, and since unvaccinated people are more likely to cause the virus to mutate it's in the governments best interest to get people vaccinated, a way of accomplishing this could be making life inconvenient for the uncompliant.

> unvaccinated people are more likely to cause the virus to mutate

Citation?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#888

Post by [deleted] »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #257
kareemm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the breakdown of unvaxxed/vaxxed in hospital admissions and deaths? Serious question. I wonder about vaxx effectiveness when I see these numbers. But the breakdown matters. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada. Our breakdown from Mar 15-Nov 26 is[1]: - Hospitalizations: 84.4% unvaxxed, 9.6% 1 shot, 6% 2 shots - Deaths: 69% unvaxxed, 7.1% 1 shot, 23.8% 2 shots Total admissions and death rate numbers don't tell the wh…

Your numbers are very similar to Ontario's, and in fact Canada in general as a whole. But what's strange is out the US doesn't seem to reflect this. There are states with fairly high vaccination rates where vaccinated people are ending up in the ICU at rates many times ours, and are only showing up as 2.5 or 3 times better protected than the unvaccinated for hospitalization. I don't know how to explain this other tha…

[deleted]

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#889

Post by disambiguation »

lorenzfx wrote: post #677

I'm surprised to find this many anti vaxxers on hn. I would have expected that the community was a lot more rational.

I'm not surprised at all.

This site is a honeypot for anti authoritarian contrarians.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#890

Post by mdp2021 »

helge9210 wrote: post #493
timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

> Besides, it's in everyone's best interest to get vaccinated. No. Some are OK with the risk. > this is a democracy If all the possible choices for the vote are supported by all the parties. If there are unacceptable choices, this is just a dictatorship of the majority.

> If all the possible choices for the vote are supported by all the parties. If there are unacceptable choices, this is just a dictatorship of the majority

I noticed that some have an interpretation of democracy as "the majority shall dominate you". They seem to be forgetful of the principle of "costitutionalism": all powers shall be preliminary limited through a social contract.

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