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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#881

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

jolux wrote: post #579
eckesicle wrote: post #502

Meanwhile in Scandinavia: You are legally entitled to unsubscribe from any contract in any way that is most comfortable to you. [0] For example, you can: * send them a letter * send them an email * call them and tell anyone who picks up the phone * write it on a napkin and hand it to an employee All are equally legit and legally binding. Companies obviously do not want to deal with the manual overhead, so services ty…

Reading the replies it seems like this law may have incentivized some companies to make themselves extremely difficult to contact in the first place. How does the law deal with this?

It is money, not any law, which has incentivized this.

For many companies, there's just no financial incentive to let customers easily cancel or contact you once recurring payments are set up.

Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #1: Once you have their money, you never give it back

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#882

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

_2d30 wrote: post #631
eckesicle wrote: post #502

Meanwhile in Scandinavia: You are legally entitled to unsubscribe from any contract in any way that is most comfortable to you. [0] For example, you can: * send them a letter * send them an email * call them and tell anyone who picks up the phone * write it on a napkin and hand it to an employee All are equally legit and legally binding. Companies obviously do not want to deal with the manual overhead, so services ty…

> You are legally entitled to unsubscribe from any contract in > any way that is most comfortable to you. [0] > For example, you can: > * send them a letter > * send them an email > * call them and tell anyone who picks up the phone > * write it on a napkin and hand it to an employee This is bad, actually. Unnecessarily raises costs. The FTC's perspective is much improved over this.

Many things which make society a better place impose a nonzero cost. Those things will certainly seem bad if you're focusing only on the cost, and ignoring the improvements.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#883

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

rootusrootus wrote: post #729
chrsig wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Showcasing a better system that the US could emulate is a great way to offer insight into how the US could improve. Interpreting it as "See how we are better than you!?" -- literally no one has said this. Interpreting it like that is just putting insecurity on display. Given the choice of two reactions: - "Geez, that system does sound better than what we've got going on here, we should consider adopting it" and - "I…

> Interpreting it like that is just putting insecurity on display. Of course, that's exactly it. Responding to every single thread about the US with "I don't understand why the US is this way, we do it better" isn't divisive at all. And anybody who suggests so is insecure. I prefer a constructive discussion. This ain't one.

It really is constructive, sharing how others have solved a particular problem.

You didn't actually address the point of taking it as a negative being an artifact of insecurity, so let me add a second opinion to the same effect. It would be respectful of you to provide a meaningful (non-sarcastic) response.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#884

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

rootusrootus wrote: post #643
kreeben wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the English word for when you're angry about something but you aim that anger towards a whole other thing?

Who is angry? I am tired of the divisive nature of this kind of rhetoric, and I am invested enough in the HN community that I want it to stop. I do not have a lot of spare emotional capacity for Internet drama, so if it graduates from annoyance to actual anger, I will simply abandon HN.

It's not divisive, our friends in Europe are on team human, same as our friends around the globe, and they're sharing info on how to do a particular thing well

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#885

Post by Breza »

eckesicle wrote: post #502

Meanwhile in Scandinavia: You are legally entitled to unsubscribe from any contract in any way that is most comfortable to you. [0] For example, you can: * send them a letter * send them an email * call them and tell anyone who picks up the phone * write it on a napkin and hand it to an employee All are equally legit and legally binding. Companies obviously do not want to deal with the manual overhead, so services ty…

Sounds like the CANSPAM Act in the United States. You can unsubscribe to an email any number of ways.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#886

Post by hirsin »

sreitshamer wrote: post #829
hirsin wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking to this myself - I was blown away by Masterclass letting me do this, after I forgot it would renew. I responded to their "hey you've been charged" email with something like "I forgot about this and didn't mean to renew". In perhaps ten minutes I had a cancelation notice and refund. Way more likely to get their stuff again. Bonus points for not sending the bill from some faceless "no reply" address.

A “you’re about to be charged” email would be friendlier and give the customer a feeling of more control. That’s what we do. (We of course will also refund the charge if you email us after it happens.)

They sent those too FWIW, I had just ignored them.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#887

Post by SkyMarshal »

neya wrote: post #59

Fuck New York Times, I had to go through this chaos once and promised to never ever use any of their services ever again. I even went to the pain of making sure all my ad blockers were in full force when visiting the NYT. I developed a strong sense of hatred after realize what kind of slimy tactics they used to stop you from cancelling a subscription. One day, I found a loophole. I would email them requesting a cance…

I fell for this trap once, and instead of going through their rigamarole, I reported my credit card lost and got a new one with a new number. Of course I had to update the subscriptions I wanted to keep with the new number, but that was less hassle than cancelling that one service.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#888

Post by HelixEndeavor »

jjk166 wrote: post #445
HelixEndeavor wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to see 1 reason you would find that this UI restriction would be a bad thing.

Let's say you subscribe to something as part of a 3rd party bundle, like say you sign up for newsletter A and there's a whole bunch of other options and you leave newsletter B selected to also subscribe to that. Then the workflow for unsubscribing from B would be going through the subscription workflow for A. This would be bad for all parties: it may be difficult or even impossible for the B group to change A's subsc…

Well, that sounds like a scenario we should prevent with legislation.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#889

Post by Westontony905 »

nunez wrote: post #459

This is amazing. I wanted to delete a bunch of services I had passwords for in 1Password. A significant number of them couldn't be cancelled online. You couldn't even call. You had to email to ask for a cancellation. This, in effect, meant that they held your data hostage. Of course, this means nothing if fees aren't associated with non-compliance.

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#890

Post by jjnoakes »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #676
jjnoakes wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not illegal to pay for it with a physical check; it's illegal (unless your original agreement automatically terminated after a year) to not then pay for the automatic renewal at the end of the year.

Happy to break the law in self-defense.

At least you admit now that it actually is breaking the law.
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