Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#881

Post by nec4b » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

filoeleven wrote: post #575

nostromo wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rush to call the storming of the capitol terrorism is really misplaced. By adopting words like "terrorism" you're paving the way for an overreaching response from lawmakers and law enforcement -- something that will likely end up being used against a cause you might support, like BLM. Firstly, nobody was terrorized. No, this wasn't "our 9/11." I doubt it'll even be a topic of conversation in a few years, just lik…

There is already a huge gulf between how BLM protests were treated and how the capitol protest was. There’s a photo from a BLM protest in DC where the Lincoln Memorial steps (not the capitol building, which is widely-stated misinformation) had lines of National Guard troops stationed on it. Compare that with the tiny Capitol Police force guarding the Capitol building while one of the most important state functions wa…

Well the left wingers have already successfully bombed the Capitol building in 1983, so it's prudent for law enforcement to be wary when they protest near it.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#882

Post by Spivak » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 3:06 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #855

Spivak wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you hit diminishing returns even before 10 years. Unless you have a reason to believe that if let out they would immediately do harm I would cap it at 5 for the very worst offenders.

So 5 years for premeditated murder?

Yep! What do you gain by having it be longer? What reform happens in 10, 25, 50 years but not 5?

You can add on non-prison sentencing if you must but I very much don’t like wasting people’s lives by holding them in a box.

And again, if you can make a case that the hypothetical murderer will immediately do it again if let out you can hold them longer.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#883

Post by nec4b » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 3:10 PM UTC

eganist wrote: post #427

nostromo wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rush to call the storming of the capitol terrorism is really misplaced. By adopting words like "terrorism" you're paving the way for an overreaching response from lawmakers and law enforcement -- something that will likely end up being used against a cause you might support, like BLM. Firstly, nobody was terrorized. No, this wasn't "our 9/11." I doubt it'll even be a topic of conversation in a few years, just lik…

> Firstly, nobody was terrorized. I can count six DC-area thousand+ employee firms that provided grief counseling in response. And as a reminder, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism - even if a subset of people implemented violence with political ends in mind (breaking in, beating innocent people, attempting to take hostages, all in the name of overturning a legitimate election), at the very least, that subset me…

The Capitol was successfully bombed in 1983 by a left wing terrorist group.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#884

Post by boublepop » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

alwaysdoit wrote: post #138

stretchcat wrote: post #78

It was planned for months, openly on Facebook in plain view of everybody. Remember that when politicians call for more intrusive surveillance in response.

Yeah, it's weird that the discussion has centered around censorship, rather than like... why didn't law enforcement shut this down sooner? Or at least properly prepare for it?

It seems so oddly funny to have people honestly question why the government didn’t make more efforts to stop something supported by their governments top leader.

It’s kind of like asking why didn’t the Russian police make efforts to stop a KGB assassination.

I mean do we really have to ask why? Isn’t it more relevant just to ask who knew about the attacks and kick them to the curb either for being astronomically incompetent, or either passively or actively assisting the attack?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#885

Post by sojournerc » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

pelliphant wrote: post #810

sojournerc wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and Antifa and BLM have caused fear in Portland for political reasons as well. They lit the mayor's apartment building on fire, but were not called out as terrorists. The media is not even handed here.

BLM is protesting against systematic racism, the trumpers where trying to overturn an election. Why would you even try to group those two things together? How could it possibly be a problem that "the media" doesn't consider those two things equal?

It doesn't matter. Violence for a political reason is terrorism[1].

I'm pointing out media hypocrisy, that doesn't mean I'm condoning any violence.

Violence is wrong in support of BLM, it's wrong in support of Trump.

The ends do not justify those means (and in fact are likely to be counterproductive).

[1] ter•ror•ism tĕr′ə-rĭz″əm► n. The use of violence or the threat of violence, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political goals.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#886

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 3:33 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #862

dragonwriter wrote: post #843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you listen to mainstream media, you’ll see them telling their audience that Parler was “deplatformed” because the planning for the Capital attack occurred there I do listen to, and read, mainstream media (and others), and I haven't seen that explanation. I've seen lots of people on the right attributing it vaguely to the MSM to lead into arguments against it, but that's the only place I've seen that explanation…

Read this video description [1]. "NBC’s Anna Schecter reports that extremists are recalibrating and planning for January 20th even though their preferred app to plan, Parler, was shut down" . Does that not directly say that Parler was the "preferred" app for the planning of right-wing election violence? I won't spend all morning detailing the rest of them (there are too many), but arguing that mainstream media is not…

None of your reports communicates either of the two claims you attributed as consistent messages of the mainstream media uphtread:

(1) that Parler was deplatformed because planning for the Capitol attack took place on the platform, (taking your best swing, you've managed to find an article presenting the incitement—not planning—cause for deplatforming as being specifically about incitement for the Capitol attack.)

(2) Planning for the Capitol attack took place exclusively on Parler, (the closest you got to this was the claim that Parler was a “preferred” app for planning for extremist groups, not that it was the exclusive venue for planning the attack)

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#887

Post by BoorishBears » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

meowster wrote: post #874

tomp wrote: post #865

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re being lazy and/or arguing in bad faith. There’s a few links to a few sources a couple of comments above. It was a BLM/Antifa attack/riot in May 2020.

> It was a BLM/Antifa attack/riot in May 2020. I'm sorry I missed that, thank you.

The Secret Service referred to it as a demonstration, but people who are upset that the alt-right invading Capitol is a big deal, so they want to retroactively create equivalency to everything that happened over the summer...

so this HN reader overruled the Secret Service and labeled it an attack

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#888

Post by sharperguy » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

trident5000 wrote: post #4

Still in the app stores I see.

To me it seems like the real reason Parler was removed was because of the risk that Donal Trump would move there after being banned from Twitter, Facebook and Youtube.

This would undoubtedly bring a lot of attention and legitimacy to that platform that could create a rift in the tech sector and a new era of actual competition.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#889

Post by jjoonathan » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

Bakary wrote: post #617

zarkov99 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you call the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone if not an attempt at insurrection? Come on, can we have some intellectual honesty here? Both situations sucked, the people involved sucked, their reasoning sucked and they should all go to jail so that sane people can get back to their lives in peace. We are being forced into building absurd logical houses of cards just so we do not concede an inch to the other sid…

From my perspective as someone outside the US, I don't have an emotional dog in this fight. That said, the Capitol raid was the one thing that made me stop joking around for a bit in the entire Trump era because I genuinely believed a coup was not only possible but probably underway given the parameters. In the end it turned out to just a bunch of disorganized wannabes but the context was still genuinely worrying esp…

> it turned out to just a bunch of disorganized wannabes

... who were trying to get an election overturned at the behest of POTUS. Motive matters, even if they were too disorganized to stand a chance.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#890

Post by downandout » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 3:51 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #886

downandout wrote: post #862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read this video description [1]. "NBC’s Anna Schecter reports that extremists are recalibrating and planning for January 20th even though their preferred app to plan, Parler, was shut down" . Does that not directly say that Parler was the "preferred" app for the planning of right-wing election violence? I won't spend all morning detailing the rest of them (there are too many), but arguing that mainstream media is not…

None of your reports communicates either of the two claims you attributed as consistent messages of the mainstream media uphtread: (1) that Parler was deplatformed because planning for the Capitol attack took place on the platform, (taking your best swing, you've managed to find an article presenting the incitement—not planning—cause for deplatforming as being specifically about incitement for the Capitol attack.) (2…

That’s not my “best swing”. It was an example that I found in 30 seconds of Googling. There are countless others.

Again, I don’t really understand your argument here. This is something that you often see on HN. People going deep into the woods, disputing minutiae while avoiding the entire point of the thread because there is no argument to be had. Combined with the upvote/downvote system, it’s an effective tactic. It silences opinions you disagree with by pushing them deep into threads where few will read them. But it is destructive to our community and makes debate on here absolutely pointless.

There is hypocrisy in the Parler situation, and it is disingenuous to say otherwise. Planning of attacks and general violence advocacy, from both the left and the right, occur daily on Facebook, just as it may have in the darker corners of Parler. The only difference is that Facebook is still operating, and Parler is not.