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Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#881

Post by jjeaff »

serial_dev wrote: post #871
ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

> My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence It sounds very easy when you speak in the abstract. I could tell you a dozen examples where you can argue for both sides, and what your conclusion will be will depend on what the media says and whether or not you like the person they "persecute" and vilify. AOC said "Are you all ready to make a ruckus? Are you all ready to fight for our rights?".…

The fiery calls to "fight" are not the problem. It is the "this election was stolen from us", rigged election, etc. without any evidence. And what's more, saying those things after courts have shut them down and rejected them.

If you make such grave accusations without proof, you are guilty of inciting what results.

If you see smoke and yell fire in a crowded room and people are trampled trying to get out, fine.

If you yell fire in a crowded room with no evidence, and people get trampled, you are culpable. Even if you said "remain calm and peaceful" after you yelled fire.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#882

Post by erikbye »

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

> I don't believe in free speech without limits.

Freedom of speech with limits is an oxymoron.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#883

Post by otaconjh »

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

Isn't your view of freedom of speech basically the same as what's already law? Incitement of violence is already illegal. At least it is here in the UK, as is hate speech, but that's a slightly more grey area. Parler has clear ToS but they're failing to enforce them. I don't believe that warrants them being purged from existence.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#884

Post by lliamander »

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

Parler (and other services like it) has a contractual relationship with its users than enable it, and it's users, to conduct their business. You cannot just disrupt other people's business arrangements for any reason at all. Depending upon the circumstances, you open yourself up to claims of tortuous interference. I think there's an argument to be made here that this is exactly what Amazon, Apple, and Google all did.

Section 230 protections doesn't apply here either. It does protect against civil suits, but only for good faith attempts at removing illegal content. It's fair to question whether Parler has done a good enough job in that regard. If not, then the appropriate parties should sue Parler to force it to clean up it's act. But there is nothing inherently illegal about Parler, so there is no reason why these platforms deserve protection for thwarting the many perfectly legitimate users on the platform.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#885

Post by Mikhail_Edoshin »

mikaeluman wrote: post #809

I’ve said it before: I find this highly disturbing. Especially the sense in which it is coordinated. Amazon, Google and Apple acting together to shut down a platform that has been very clear about its stance on content moderation from the outset. Free speech is not just any value. Sooner or later you will find yourself on the side of an issue where your speech will be attacked. Then there is the always present double…

The argument "you will find yourself on the other side" is weak. First, it's just a threat in disguise. Second, it's a weak threat because it's hard to realistically imagine Besos or Cook trying to start another Parler.

What's happening is just morally wrong. Not because the situation may flip, but because there's a higher moral law to things and what's happening contradicts this law. Even if your side appears to be winning, it's actually losing, because it's losing its soul.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#886

Post by throwaway2245 »

jturpin wrote: post #802
ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

I have not yet concluded whether I believe in free speech without limits, but I can at least say with confidence the following: - Freedom of speech is of extremely high importance for any free society and should not be taken for granted - Removing it in any capacity should be done with extreme care and free of any bias one way or another, with a lot of thought put into any future consequences - Speech without a platf…

> - Private companies' interest should have little, if any, control over the ability of the public to speak

> - Speech without a platform isn't speech at all

These seem to me to be in conflict: if I don't have access to a particular platform (let's say, the New York Times), do I have access to freedom of speech?

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#887

Post by bestnameever »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #865
ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

The mainstream media was complicit in arguing for the Iraq War, which resulted in the deaths of nearly a million people and is still ongoing in the form of the Syrian Civil War. Are you for shutting down the New York Times, then? The violence they’ve facilitated dwarfs that of the recent events. Edit: in case you doubt me, here’s a pretty damning article: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/iraq..…

> The mainstream media was complicit in arguing for the Iraq War

So was conservative media - why single out only the mainstream media?

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#888

Post by secondcoming »

The AWS censorship should be concerning for anyone who uses their services. It's now clear that any business you have can be destroyed by a small, but vocal, group of people who don't like it for whatever reason.

What does this 'cut off' look like?

Do AWS make your site inaccessible to the public, but still give you access to your data?

Do they waive the data egress fees so that you can pull everything down locally?

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#889

Post by misja111 »

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

> I don't believe in free speech without limits.

This. I have started to believe that although free speech is very important, it is only possible to have full free speech in a society where there is not too much hostility between groups. Otherwise it has become too easy to manipulate people, both in your own group and in groups that you are opposed to.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#890

Post by irthomasthomas »

I'm in the U.K. and I need some help understanding what is happening here. I'm a big left winger too, (but British socialism respects the sovereignty of parliament. Or it used to). Anyway, why can I not install this app now? I checked and it is not in the U.K. play store. Your president did something bad, and now I am not allowed some app? And the president and his supporters have been wiped from social media? I can't even go and see what the did to cause this?
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