Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

881–890 of 1001 posts

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#881

Post by pjmlp »

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

Also in Africa, most business live out from WhatsApp.

You will find WhatsApp contacts for any kind of communication, ordering a taxi, food, whatever.

Move out of WhatsApp, and it is going to be quite boring out in the Savannah.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#882

Post by heresie-dabord »

tdubhro1 wrote: post #692
kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

I'm also in the UK and I deleted WhatsApp 2 years ago when it became clear that Facebook intended to move in the direction of fuller integration (I deleted my Facebook account after 1 month of usage 10 years ago). However, I had to reinstall WhatsApp because all of my kid's sports activities and school updates are organised through WhatsApp groups and it is impossible to participate without WhatsApp. Much as I believ…

If you think privacy is important, you have to do something about it.

It's a lesson in civics. To do nothing and say nothing while expecting someone else to fight the good fight is poor citizenship, but it is very good consumerism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#884

Post by Cro_on »

bigbizisverywyz wrote: post #750
tdubhro1 wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also in the UK and I deleted WhatsApp 2 years ago when it became clear that Facebook intended to move in the direction of fuller integration (I deleted my Facebook account after 1 month of usage 10 years ago). However, I had to reinstall WhatsApp because all of my kid's sports activities and school updates are organised through WhatsApp groups and it is impossible to participate without WhatsApp. Much as I believ…

the issue is that people would probably not want to pay for an app like WhatsApp, and so the 'free' alternative takes hold, and whoever controls that gets the cost of running the infrastructure in advertisement fees. If some company could set themselves up as a utility, and the mobile network operators were to pay that company to run the messaging app + infra, then it could be made to operate like a utility and nobod…

This could work as a good argument to switch if executed well.

'your device owns you and is siphoning cash from you'

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#885

Post by paulnechifor »

silasdavis wrote: post #604

As others have mentioned increasingly small businesses (like my outdoor exercise class) and loose communities (like my child's school year parent's group) rely on WhatsApp. persuading these loose connections to move away from WhatsApp for one's own benefit is almost impossible. Sacrificing access to these social amenities on the altar of incremental privacy invasion and power transfer to an unaccountable basically ma…

I guess that's part of the plan, give it for free and make it indispensable and then reap the rewards. Feels like a drug operation. :(

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#886

Post by dd_roger »

72deluxe wrote: post #846
timvisee wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ditched it about 2 years ago. And man, it's so hard! Literally everybody uses it here in the Netherlands as well. I'm getting strange looks every day when people hear I don't use the platform. It's horrendous. I also really fear for the moment where I've to tell a nice girl I met that I don't use the platform, and that we should use X other platform instead. I can imagine that to be a letdown or to be weird. That's i…

I got used to the strange looks. I got the strange looks when people heard I didn't use Facebook. If you asked them to sign up to a website on the Internet that was popular in your circles just so you could be friends, they'd refuse, eg. "please sign up to basschat.co.uk because all my friends like bass guitars". If their friendship relies on you installing an app on your phone, that's a very shallow friendship isn't…

> If their friendship relies on you installing an app on your phone, that's a very shallow friendship isn't it?

This argument doesn't make sense. You can't just ignore practical aspects entirely and justify it with a cheeky "if they're truely your friends they'll accomodate ahah".

Sure if I want to send a private message to a friend I don't care whether its via SMS or whatsapp, but if I'm in a group chat with 5 of my friends I won't send a transcript of the conversation to the one person who doesn't participate.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#887

Post by drago-1 »

toprea wrote: post #771
kar1181 wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is precisely the dilemma in a nutshell. You have a choice but it's a bit like voluntary solitary confinement. Especially during a lockdown.

Just thinking out loud here, as I was considering something like this. I can also not give up the WhatsApp account due to the social pressure. What if I would use a second phone, a cheap one, used only for the whatsapp (and some other essential but privacy invasive apps). I would not have that second phone always with me, but it would provide me access to the social network I need without feeling tracked or providing…

>What if I would use a second phone, a cheap one, used only for the whatsapp (and some other essential but privacy invasive apps). I would not have that second phone always with me, but it would provide me access to the social network I need without feeling tracked or providing more data than needed.

This is what I'm doing currently: an old phone used exclusively for whatsapp (with an empty contact list); it always stays at home. I only use it to coordinate kid's stuff (school, social activities, etc), so there is no problem with me not having it with me the whole time.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#889

Post by lifty »

renjimen wrote: post #219
lifty wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatsapp had to compete with SMS, so when I was introduced to WhatsApp I thought it was a godsend and immediately adopted it. Also advertised it to all my friends. Switching now might be harder because there is a lot less to gain, besides some non-tangible “privacy”. What is this thing called “privacy”?

I was nodding along with your comment, wondering why it had been downvoted until I reached your last statement and couldn't tell if you were being serious or not.

Indeed, I was playing the devil's advocate. I definitely care about privacy and I am quite an ardent supported of projects that try to solve this issue. I just learned that if privacy comes at a large expense (losing their social graph or unfriendly UX), people will not care for it. So I guess we need to do better so we can have both privacy and good UX.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#890

Post by MayeulC »

comeonseriously wrote: post #812
kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

Assign everyone an IP V6, there's plenty. Then treat that as our internet phone number. Define a chat protocol that contains the very basics and everyone has to support that. Want to send a chat, you have their IP V6. Exchange using QR code. No server necessary for the basics. If a text fails sending device can keep trying or just give up. This takes chat away from any single service.

Unfortunately, IPv6 addresses have to be assigned by someone, and they typically change when moving around/changing provider. And you have to go trough the firewall...

I prefer something you can generate yourself, like encryption keys. That's the approach taken by yggdrasil (and cjdns before): generate an encryption key, map the public part to an IP address (there's almost enough bits in v6). Plus, it can easily be end-to-end encrypted.

Another plus is that you can generate as many as desired.

As for the protocol, Matrix is experimenting a bit with going p2p.

https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/

Post reply on HN