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A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

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Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#881
post #156

Honest question: are there good examples of unionized companies that continue to innovate post unionization? Unionization seems at the surface like the end stage of disruptor where stakeholders begin jockeying for slices of a pie that now grows linearly.

The entire economy of Germany

Compare that to the economy Germany could have had.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#883

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are no celebrity SRE Twitter is full of them.

>> There are no celebrity SREs (at best they have some cache in the software/SRE community, but not in the general public). > Twitter is full of them. Name one.

Kelsey Hightower comes to mind.

In general, I try to avoid Twitter though because the software community there is very self-congratulatory and a bit toxic elitist. Not to mention if you aren't a front-end dev good luck being treated like you are a real engineer.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#884
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the cart before the horse. Tell me I'm signing up for something that I have no idea how it will turn out, and then present me with a take it or leave it contract months later. And I'm stuck.

I (from the UK) don't understand: you don't have to join a union. Keep your current contract and don't have a say in Union representation and negotiation, if that's what you want. It's 'take greater combined power against the corporation you work for' (and in things like representation of your industry before government) or stand on your own as you do now. I don't understand how it's possible to lose? You can even wi…

>Keep your current contract and don't have a say in Union representation and negotiation, if that's what you want.

Union contracts with the company typically bar the company from keeping or entering contracts with non-union workers that have different terms from those of the union.

In many (23) US states, when a union forms at a workplace, it can compel all non-union workers to pay fees to the union, weather they want to join or not.

I think most US workers would be for unions if they were presented as you described, where you can choose between different options or working without a union.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#885
So many in this thread talking about a contract, rigidity, voting, etc. This is not a card-signing campaign, nobody will be voting on a CBA. AWU is running a minority unionism campaign which means that it's closer to a lobbying group or non-profit than eg. your standard public teachers' union.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#887

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I full on support their goal to clean up their yard before moving somewhere else. Employees are stakeholders and can use their leverage as they please. You somehow cast a negative moral light on workers for using this leverage when every other stakeholder, managment, stockholders, board members, government agencies, voters all use their leverage to change the ecosystem. Entitlement? You are entitled to what you can g…

This shows how deeply ingrained right-wing ideology has become in America. Outside America it is obvious that billionaires, oligarchs and CEOs wield power in their own self-interest, and that workers benefit from collective action in their own self-interest. But inside America the billionaires, oligarchs and CEOs are mythologized as benevolent actors, and workers should be thankful for the gifts graciously bestowed u…

>It's bizarre how Americans celebrate ruthlessly competitive markets when workers compete against each other for food, shelter and medical care. But it's a cultural taboo to use those same competitive market forces for the benefit of workers.

yep. Class consciousness exists in the US, but predominantly among billionaires and celebrities.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#888
post #38

When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…

How long will it be before I have to wait for a union React dev to open a PR on the frontend as a backend dev, and a union DBA to write a new SELECT statement for me, and a union CSS dev to shift a header three pixels to the right, and a union mathematician to approve my simple arithmetic ?

Why not join now and help steer the union away from that future?

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#889
post #38

When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…

> I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster. I am such a person. For most workers, you're right that a union will probably increase wages. But for me, it will do the opposite. In most jobs I have worked, I ended up paid significantly more than counterparts in the same job. I usually was better at my job and put in…

White collar unionized workers have higher compensation than their non-union counterparts. They also have better benefits and more time off.

But the single most important thing, to me, is that white collar union members report higher life satisfaction than their non-union peers.

> I never liked the mandatory nature of unions, either.

No one is forcing you to work a union job.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve Agree, things that a union can address: - Pay transparency, Have detailed info about pay bands, and ensure some new hire from a hot company doing the same job as you is not making 2-3x your salary. - Broken promotion process, at my company promotion is completely…

I worked in a unionized IT shop for 6 years (now in SV) and here's my take: Pay transparency: union mandated pay band helps - no 2x/3x pay for the same position that's for sure. Though I do think this problem could be solved without a union. It's really about opening up compensation information. Broken promotion process/age discrimination/interviews: First of all, broken processes are not going to get better with a u…

Will you stay at the unionized shop though?
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