Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…
Can you link to sources regarding Stallmans behavior towards women? It’s not that I don’t believe you but because I tried to google “Richard Stallman suicide threat” and couldn’t come up with anything... I do want to believe you, but I can’t propagate information without evidence.
Richard M. Stallman resigns
881–890 of 1001 posts
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#882RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…
It's frustrating and hard to find real information regarding what he did say and what he did not say, so I feel I shouldn't play the judge here. I did find this direct quote of him on his website, and it doesn't sound to me, from reading this piece, that he was trying to defend Minsky:
> Headlines say that I defended Epstein. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've called him a "serial rapist", and said he deserved to be imprisoned.
https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September...
I do not think this changes everything, but if this is indeed his honest opinion, then I do feel that he might have simply communicated his opinions very poorly.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#883Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I welcome anyone to provide a counter-argument. Here's a counter. You're ascribing intent to one's writing, and unless you have a special relationship with Mr. Stallman - you don't know anything. Because of a radical, illiberal mob, Stallman's life's work has been taken from him. Few years ago I had had a Junior engineer on my team begin telling me how he finds certain speech so intolerable that he feels he has the…
Intent is irrelevant ... only the impact. One must always be ready to reckon with the impact of their actions and speech, regardless of what their intent was.
> Intent is irrelevant ... only the impact.
Generally both are judged.
You can have the intent to commit murder, but if you bungle it and the person is still living (i.e., no impact), then you're still in trouble.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#884Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I welcome anyone to provide a counter-argument. Here's a counter. You're ascribing intent to one's writing, and unless you have a special relationship with Mr. Stallman - you don't know anything. Because of a radical, illiberal mob, Stallman's life's work has been taken from him. Few years ago I had had a Junior engineer on my team begin telling me how he finds certain speech so intolerable that he feels he has the…
Intent is irrelevant ... only the impact. One must always be ready to reckon with the impact of their actions and speech, regardless of what their intent was.
If the impact is a bunch of people misinterpreting and feeling upset, that’s not much impact.
If impact caused harm then that’s another story.
There are laws for libel, slander, harassment, threat. Let’s use those laws and prosecute people.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#885RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…
> I welcome anyone to provide a counter-argument. Here's a counter. You're ascribing intent to one's writing, and unless you have a special relationship with Mr. Stallman - you don't know anything. Because of a radical, illiberal mob, Stallman's life's work has been taken from him. Few years ago I had had a Junior engineer on my team begin telling me how he finds certain speech so intolerable that he feels he has the…
>Few years ago I had had a Junior engineer on my team begin telling me how he finds certain speech so intolerable that he feels he has the right to assault someone for saying it.
Most people feel this way. Not with nearly as much speech as your junior did, but there are certain forms of speech we are so against we have written exceptions into law and the Supreme Court even used concepts such as obscenity to empower these laws to ignore even the First Amendment.
Is it really surprising a generation or two later people are now seeking to have even more speech fall under such bans?
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#886People have to have a path to redemption. Stallman apologized and admitted he was wrong. Why is it not acceptable to make a mistake with words? Isn't it impractical to expect everyone to never say something they regret? These are words we're talking about. It's not like Stallman raped a child. Kicking him out of FSF and MIT seems quite excessive for somebody saying something and then apologizing for it. Whether they…
Constructing a situation in which Marvin Minsky somehow was blameless for his relationship with a known pedophile and child sex trafficker and situations directly resulting from that relationship, then projecting the reactions of other people through that situation, is not merely a mistake with words . Coupled with his at-best-real-gross chinstroking about minors, consent, and statutory rape in the past, it demonstra…
> is not merely a mistake with words.
Yes. Yes, it is. Are we talking about the same story? We’re talking about something Richard Stallman said. That is his offense and the reason for him being kicked out of FSF and MIT.
Since you dodged the whole point of my comment by reiterating that Stallman said something offensive, I’ll restate my point clearly as a question: In your opinion, can someone be forgiven for saying something wrong? and how do they seek that forgiveness other than apologizing and admitting they were wrong?
I’m sure like everyone you’ve said horrible shit over your lifetime, whether in public or private, whether strangers or family. If we brought out those people hurt by your words over your lifetime, wouldn’t you want to be forgiven? Don’t hold other people to a different standard than you hold yourself.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#887RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…
How can you request a counter argument when you have not provided an argument?
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#888Stallman was questioning an absolute statement by using some logic and common sense, building a most-likely scenario for what happened - which could maybe better reflect the situation based on knowledge he had about the deceased.
He did not transfer the guilt to the victim nor defended anything wrong that Minsky may have done.
This scenario seems entirely plausible for me. The deceased is not here to defend himself, so I guess it's up to his friends/family/coworkers to defend his reputation.
Also, about the age of consent, I find it ludicrous that a number of people do not know the age of consent on most of the western world is usually 16 or less. Some are even saying "some european countries still have 16 or 14 y/o as age of consent..." as if the age of consent is going to increase in the short term.
Spoiler alert: USA is the odd one out, and it's more in line with Turkey than Western Europe. Let this information sink in for a moment.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#889Earlier quoted context omitted.
Find a few women who've met RMS and ask them about their experience. For years I've been hearing stories from women about RMS that paint a pretty clear picture, and if you look on twitter, there's a number of threads about his abusive behavior towards women. One example: people kept plants around because he hates plants and that made it less likely he'd come around to harass them. He's discussed his views on pedophil…
> One example: people kept plants around because he hates plants and that made it less likely he'd come around to harass them. Try and find a primary source for that "fact". You are just repeating black rumours, which signals that you have no credibility.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#890Anyone who has actually read the email thread and considers it a defence of sexual assault, the topic of the thread, is as intellectually bankrupt as the media witch hunts rms was warning about and fell victim to. We should be all concerned that media witch hunts like this can in act such results. It is abhorrent that any discussion that triggers a progressive dominated media can destroy people's lives.
Social media mobs are not the the root problem that we should be concerned with. They are just a byproduct of a bigger issue which is control of the major media outlets by big corporations.
It is in their best interest to polarize the society, ideally along some bullshit problem or identity (e.g. men vs women, old vs young, white vs non-white). This way people can release their anger and waste their time on pointless discussions (while consuming ads) instead of realizing the system is rigged and they are actually being screwed by the wealthy oligarchs.