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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#881

Post by scarface74 »

leereeves wrote: post #879
scarface74 wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in other words we should all pay a subsidy to help the "working class"? That's exactly what a tariff is. I thought conservatives were against forcing people to pay taxes and "big government" and we should let the free market decide - or do they just feel that way about health care? All wages won't rise because of manufacturing jobs. Just those for manufacturing. It's basically "redistributing" money from those who…

I'd love to continue this discussion but apparently I've been rate-limited for some reason, and suddenly I'm only allowed one post every 2 hours. I'll close with this: We already pay subsidies for all kinds of things. Why not pay one to help the working class? ---- Response to below: I do think any injustice is immoral but subsidies aren't injustice. We pay lots of subsidies. I never said subsidies are immoral. And d…

I am all for criminal justice reform - and I said as much in an earlier post.

But if "I only want to read a study and consider no other facts". What should we "believe" other than studies? A few anecdotes? If there are some systemic issues caused by government policies - and there are plenty with the criminal justice system - I'm all for reform. Reforming the criminal justice system is about less government not more.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#882

Post by leereeves »

dragonwriter wrote: post #875
leereeves wrote: post #866

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would do or fund such a study? Women outnumber men in college by 50%, and almost nobody sees a problem with that. Men vastly outnumber women among the homeless, prisoners, accidental deaths, etc, and nobody cares about that either. Nobody in power cares enough about less fortunate men to support any studies that might show what obstacles they face.

> Women outnumber men in college by 50% 56% to 44% as of this past fall, and projected to reach 57% to 43% by 2026. [0] That's a little over 25%, not 50%. > almost nobody sees a problem with that. Lots of people see it as a symptom of a major problem.[0, again] > Men vastly outnumber women among the homeless This is, IIRC, basically entirely because virtually the entire set of homeless veterans is male, and homeless…

True, I exaggerate a bit when I say "nobody" cares; I mean:

Do these questions come up in Presidential campaigns? Are they debated in Congress? Is there any funding to address these issues? Are there massive organized protests calling for change?

The wage gap is smaller than the education gap, and in that case the answer to all these questions is "Yes".

There are some people working to bring attention to these issues, but they've had limited success and face quite a bit of opposition.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#883

Post by haxney »

idlewords wrote: post #75

None of the three people profiled in this article are tech workers. They are investors, or whatever it is that Tim Ferriss is. To the extent tech workers are leaving Silicon Valley, I'm willing to bet the dominant factor is the cost of housing.

I'm the Dan Hackney profiled in the article. I was a software engineer at Google for three and a half years.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#884

Post by scarface74 »

leereeves wrote: post #879
scarface74 wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in other words we should all pay a subsidy to help the "working class"? That's exactly what a tariff is. I thought conservatives were against forcing people to pay taxes and "big government" and we should let the free market decide - or do they just feel that way about health care? All wages won't rise because of manufacturing jobs. Just those for manufacturing. It's basically "redistributing" money from those who…

I'd love to continue this discussion but apparently I've been rate-limited for some reason, and suddenly I'm only allowed one post every 2 hours. I'll close with this: We already pay subsidies for all kinds of things. Why not pay one to help the working class? ---- Response to below: I do think any injustice is immoral but subsidies aren't injustice. We pay lots of subsidies. I never said subsidies are immoral. And d…

I'm not doubting your numbers - or your end results and I'm also not arguing about whether certain segments of the population get treated unfairly in the criminal justice system. I'm all for criminal justice reform as I've said repeatedly.

But you haven't just been talking about unfairness in the criminal justice system. You have also been arguing that the white male is being discriminated against in other parts of society - including the education system and the labor market.

But now you are claiming that there is discrimination against men because there are fewer male teachers? Most of the studies and surveys show women make less men partially because they choose professions that are more conducive to raising a family - like teachers. Most women I know who are teachers cite that as a reason that they became teachers - because their work schedules are aligned with their children's school schedules. Including having summers off.

Again, you are pointing to outcome without showing any links to a correlation between discrimination and the outcome. If you really want to change policy based on statistics and outcome, you would be arguing more in favor of wealth being redistributed to minorities and women - no I'm not arguing that.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#885

Post by scarface74 »

leereeves wrote: post #882
dragonwriter wrote: post #875

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Women outnumber men in college by 50% 56% to 44% as of this past fall, and projected to reach 57% to 43% by 2026. [0] That's a little over 25%, not 50%. > almost nobody sees a problem with that. Lots of people see it as a symptom of a major problem.[0, again] > Men vastly outnumber women among the homeless This is, IIRC, basically entirely because virtually the entire set of homeless veterans is male, and homeless…

True, I exaggerate a bit when I say "nobody" cares; I mean: Do these questions come up in Presidential campaigns? Are they debated in Congress? Is there any funding to address these issues? Are there massive organized protests calling for change? The wage gap is smaller than the education gap, and in that case the answer to all these questions is "Yes". There are some people working to bring attention to these issues…

White males hold most positions in power in both government, industry, and religion - I'm not making a value judgement, just stating facts - the three most influential parts of society. Who are these powerful forces that are keeping them from rising up?

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#886

Post by leereeves »

scarface74 wrote: post #884
leereeves wrote: post #879

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to continue this discussion but apparently I've been rate-limited for some reason, and suddenly I'm only allowed one post every 2 hours. I'll close with this: We already pay subsidies for all kinds of things. Why not pay one to help the working class? ---- Response to below: I do think any injustice is immoral but subsidies aren't injustice. We pay lots of subsidies. I never said subsidies are immoral. And d…

I'm not doubting your numbers - or your end results and I'm also not arguing about whether certain segments of the population get treated unfairly in the criminal justice system. I'm all for criminal justice reform as I've said repeatedly. But you haven't just been talking about unfairness in the criminal justice system. You have also been arguing that the white male is being discriminated against in other parts of s…

I said there's a vocal segment of the population that is hostile to white men, not systematic discrimination. This segment includes people at powerful institutions, and they're actively seeking more power. If they take power then you'll see systematic discrimination against white men in employment. Right now, other groups experience discrimination more often, but that doesn't make discrimination against white people acceptable.

I'm also arguing that working class men of all races, not only white, are suffering because manufacturing jobs have left America. In fact, whole communities, men and women of all races suffering because of that. Meanwhile we see how much the presence of manufacturing jobs in China is fueling whole communities.

I think both of those factors contributed to Trump's success.

The conversation also strayed to systematic discrimination against men in education, the justice system, and social support, but I don't think this has much to do with Trump's success.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#887

Post by freyir »

andrewjl wrote: post #670
freyir wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor choice of words on my part. I meant "conservative" in terms of NIMBYs' aversion to change and development.

Use of liberal / conservative in this context is muddled at best and misleading at worst.

It’s not muddled, it’s used according to the definition of the word.

And in truth, SF’s housing policy does fall in line with typical conservative values. It protects the interests of the establishment, in this case those who are either long-term property owners or wealthy enough to buy their way in a high premium.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#888

Post by scarface74 »

leereeves wrote: post #886
scarface74 wrote: post #884

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not doubting your numbers - or your end results and I'm also not arguing about whether certain segments of the population get treated unfairly in the criminal justice system. I'm all for criminal justice reform as I've said repeatedly. But you haven't just been talking about unfairness in the criminal justice system. You have also been arguing that the white male is being discriminated against in other parts of s…

I said there's a vocal segment of the population that is hostile to white men, not systematic discrimination. This segment includes people at powerful institutions, and they're actively seeking more power. If they take power then you'll see systematic discrimination against white men in employment. Right now, other groups experience discrimination more often, but that doesn't make discrimination against white people…

There is also a vocal segment of racists, homophobes, sexists and people who want to impose their religious beliefs on America that mostly lean Republican. But no one here is arguing about policy changes based on that.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#889

Post by peoplewindow »

scarface74 wrote: post #858
leereeves wrote: post #855

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men are only about 40% of college students. Male unemployment is higher. I have no data on the others.

That’s not what I asked. Can you find studies where equally qualified white men were denied opportunities, controlling for all other variables suffered harm because of their color or gender? I can post studies where the opposite has happened in housing, hiring, and the criminal justice system.

Yes, such studies do occur and they do show bias against white men.

Typically these are studies that are trying to find bias against women, by anonymising hiring processes. Replacing names on CVs, even voice masking. What they discover instead is that anonymising hiring makes outcomes better for men not women, and then the studies and the anonymisation is canned.

Like here:

http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-mas...

But there are others. There were some studies in Australia on this. You can search for them quite easily.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#890

Post by scarface74 »

peoplewindow wrote: post #889
scarface74 wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not what I asked. Can you find studies where equally qualified white men were denied opportunities, controlling for all other variables suffered harm because of their color or gender? I can post studies where the opposite has happened in housing, hiring, and the criminal justice system.

Yes, such studies do occur and they do show bias against white men. Typically these are studies that are trying to find bias against women, by anonymising hiring processes. Replacing names on CVs, even voice masking. What they discover instead is that anonymising hiring makes outcomes better for men not women, and then the studies and the anonymisation is canned. Like here: http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-…

The link you posted explicitly says Though these trends weren’t statistically significant, I am mentioning them because they were unexpected and definitely something to watch for as we collect more data.
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