Electron is flash for the desktop (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#881

Post by zwetan » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 4:40 AM UTC

BatFastard wrote: post #765

zwetan wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that does not apply to desktop app

Why not? Is it not using a VM for desktop app?

it is not the same security context between web/browser apps and desktop apps wether there is a VM involved or not.

A browser can load remote payload (not under user control) that can then exploit browsers flaw, Flash AVM2 flaw, etc.

On the desktop the user run a local exe/app which has de facto "full system access".

A bit surprised you don't know that, it's kind of basic ...

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#882

Post by jmagoon » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 4:44 AM UTC

mi100hael wrote: post #646

brandon272 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your insight. The part that confuses me as a non-native developer is the folks in this thread who seem to be implying that there are only marginal amounts of additional time needed to release cross platform, fully native apps.

> as a non-native developer I think the implication is as much that developers who label themselves like you have as "non-native" or "JS" or "web" developers don't have the perspective to make an informed decision on the matter. Many of the rest of us know how to build React SPAs (and have been doing it long enough to have used Angular 1, Backbone, Sproutcore, ...) but "JS + Framework of the Week" is just one of the…

Are you saying that building a web version and two (or five) native versions of an application is equivalent to building a single JS codebase and having it just run? It certainly sounds wonderful to learn new tools, but how does that stack up from the engineering (cost-benefit) side?

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#883

Post by flukus » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 4:46 AM UTC

grinich wrote: post #404

At Nylas we made a huge bet on Electron-- our desktop app Nylas Mail actually started as a fork of Atom Shell before the project was rebranded to "Electron." To be honest, we would have never built this app without Electron. It allowed us to have a small team (2 devs) ship the first version of the app without learning an entire new dev toolchain on multiple platforms. There certainly can be performance issues with bu…

> To be honest, we would have never built this app without Electron. It allowed us to have a small team (2 devs) ship the first version of the app without learning an entire new dev toolchain on multiple platforms.

There are a number of email apps around, why would I want to use one from developers that put their convenience above mine (and my batter life)?

> But I predict it will be like Java-- everyone "hates" the JVM for years and calls it slow and then one day it's running nearly every mobile device and being used across Google.

Notice how the jvm is dead on the desktop? Notice how android apps are incredibly slow compared to a native one? Also, android has never run on the JVM, they created their own VM because the JVM was too slow.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#884

Post by pseudalopex » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 4:53 AM UTC

copperx wrote: post #843

jnwatson wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already do, just not on mobile.

I don't get it. If slack.com is a web-based chat, why doesn't the OP open Slack on his existing instance of Chrome?

"Along with the features available in your browser, the app loads your conversations more quickly, gives you more control over notifications, and has better support for multiple teams."[1]

Also, the app gets its own entry in the task switcher.

[1] https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/207677868-Slack-for...

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#885

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 4:53 AM UTC

Psilidae wrote: post #416

josephg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm consistently blown away that stuff like this gets past testing. Personally I think every software engineer should have a CPU meter of some for running on their machine while developing. Its an essential element of seeing what you're doing. How can you write decent software without having even that much visibility over what your computer is up to while your code runs? These huge CPU sinks making it through to rele…

I think this thinking is exactly how it gets past testing. You could force every engineer to have a CPU meter, but that alone won't help; they'll ignore it, assume it was a coworker's change that made the usage higher, or just assume their CPU is high because of their 30 Chrome tabs currently open while developing. A better solution would be to have CI monitor CPU usage so that increases/decreases could be monitored…

[deleted]

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#886

Post by smokeyj » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 4:56 AM UTC

ris wrote: post #820

smokeyj wrote: post #403

There's two kinds of developers. Dorks who care about programming, and programmers who care about creating deliverable value. What do consumers think about electron apps? That's all that matters. Consumers don't know what the heck electron is, only that their apps work seamlessly across platforms. The only people who complain about electron apps are dorks who have an axe to grind with web developers. I'd rather have…

"Dorks who care about programming, and programmers who care about creating deliverable value." I'd rather have 95% of the code on my machines written by those from the former camp. And if you think about it, the 5% of it is the stuff that comes & goes. Slack? Big now, but will anyone remember it in 5 years after the next big thing? So which camp is generating the true "value"?

Did you post this from a browser or using CURL?

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#887

Post by smokeyj » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:07 AM UTC

4D1 wrote: post #809

smokeyj wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your solution to memory leaks is using a lower-level language? I should probably stop reading there.. How do you make SSL connections? How do you parse JSON api's? How do you play audio, integrate with platform features (menu bars, dock dropping etc)? How do you create P2P WebRTC connections that capture camera and mic inputs? Let me guess, you have libraries for that. People keep bringing this up because they're ins…

> Your solution to memory leaks is using a lower-level language? I should probably stop reading there.. Lower level than sandboxing into a js VM? yes. Writing everything in assembly, or in an unmanaged language? no. Adding unnecessary complexity to a program increases possibilities of bugs, which in this case, will be outside of your control. And this is a perfect example of unnecessary complexity. > How do you make…

The basic premise for this entire blog post is that people who use electron don't know that lower level technologies exist.

FTA: It turns out modern operating systems already have nice, fast UI libraries. So use them you clod!

FTA: Also all you web devs: Go learn C or Rust or something.

So yes, this is in-fact an ad-hominem attack. There's a certain type of person who rehashes this old stupid argument. A few years ago they'd berate you for using a LAMP stack to set up your clients wordpress blog. A couple years ago they'd give you shit for using Node on the server and not being a "real" developer.

Point being, if the author of this blog post resonates with you - I can guarantee you with a high degree of certainty that I can fit your world view in a tiny little box.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#888

Post by golergka » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:14 AM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #793

golergka wrote: post #792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What value deviation from uniform UI has for me?

Is it hurting you in any objective way? That is the better question here. What objective value do you get from a 100% uniform UI? I can very easily orient myself between using my Win10 and macOS Telegram apps.

Aesthetic one, of course.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#889

Post by MarkMc » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:16 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #591

MarkMc wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with the content of your message, just wish you had used a word less derogatory than 'dorks'

I'm having a hard time thinking of a word that's less derogatory. What do you have in mind?

In this context, how about 'programmer'?

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#890

Post by eridius » Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 5:43 AM UTC

mikeevans wrote: post #707

lilyball wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here's the thing. You know what the alternative to all of these Electron apps coming out is? If your answer is "A native Cocoa/WPF app", you are on another planet, the answer is, "It wouldn't exist at all". This comment is completely wrong. You know what Slack was before it was an Electron app? It was a Cocoa app. Sure, it wrapped a WebView, but given Slack's nature that's not a surprise. Regardless, the Cocoa Slac…

I don't think OP is ignorant of that fact - because they work at Slack.

Oh interesting. So why'd they even try to make the argument at all? Are they a new hire and simply aren't aware that Slack had a native app until recently?