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Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

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Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#871

Post by refurb »

LeBit wrote: post #166
bhouston wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was totally the right move, if for no other reason than it's the only thing that this US admin will respect in the long run. Unfortunately, Canada (where I live) will feel way more pain from this than the US. I am not sure Trump will have respect for this at all, but the alternative was to put in a permanent trade deal that significant disadvantaged Canada.

As a Canadian, I am willing to suffer if it means long term benefits. Carney is very popular for a reason.

You sure? Canada's economy is struggling as is. The healthcare system is holding on by a thread. You ready for unemployment to double? If there is a significant recession, tax reciepts go down and healthcare spending gets further cut.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#872

Post by bawolff »

savanaly wrote: post #847
bawolff wrote: post #830

As a canadian, i'm so over this drama. They will either trade with us or they won't. If they don't it will be painful - but im happy with the government reciprocating in kind (so we arent being taken andvantage of), and then moving on as best as possible. At some point you have to stop worrying about the things you cannot change. If trump wants a lose-lose deal, so be it.

>so we arent being taken andvantage of For the last time...that's not how trade works! People who say this in this context mean well, but are committing the exact same category error/misunderstanding of economics that Trump and his supporters are.

It is 100% how trade works. Free trade for both sides = good for both sides. Lopsided deals where one side gets the free flow of trade but the other side gets protectionism = exploitative.

What is the category error here? Where is the misunderstanding?

If you really believed what you wrote, why do you think trade deals exist in the first place? What function do you think they serve?

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#873

Post by Peaches4Rent »

THX1137 wrote: post #309
dennis_jeeves2 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Canada is that it’s broadly in a weak negotiating position here. That's an understatement. Hypothetically if Canada were isolated from the world, it would regress in the quality of life in 10 years. The most capable Canadians have moved out, mostly to the US. The average Canadian has unwarranted sense of nationalistic pride about them (compared to their neighbors). Isolate US from the world, and assuming that the go…

By definition if you isolate a country from the world it would be more self sufficient that very moment than it is the moment before it is isolated. Isn't that obvious?

Just so you know, I think comments like these are just unproductive.

Its one thing to correct the meaning of the word "self sufficient" and its straight up bad faith to talk past the actual meaning of the comment

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#874

Post by ulrikrasmussen »

telesilla wrote: post #750
jdeisenberg wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly waiting for a reasonable replacement for US tech. For example, if the US should decide to shut off MasterCard and VISA services to Europe, it would create non-trivial difficulties for the European banking system.

EU has started that with the Wero project. https://wero-wallet.eu/

But this can also just be removed from the app stores and the developer certificates can be revoked. Due to the centralized control and distribution of software on smartphones, no smartphone based payment system is really sovereign - it only exists because the US allows it to.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#875

Post by nirui »

hunglee2 wrote: post #413

The world should've collectively recognised what Liberation Day was and responded together, in lock step, and in kind. Instead, the Europeans caved, Japanese caved (PM resigned after doing so), Republic of Korea caved (PM resigned after doing so), India of course caved and so on, shattering any prospect of collective action which might pull the rogue hegemon back into line. Now, the US is simply able to renege or ren…

It's like all the other nations were at fault. But maybe these nations "caved" because the strategy implemented by the US worked.

And China, based on my understanding, is looking for ways to reduce US influence anyway at least domestically. So, a worsen-yet-controllable US-China relationship maybe considered beneficial on that end. The tests (lockdown etc) done during COVID time has proven that Chinese people endures much more suffering before they begin to rise up, so the economic problems introduced by not caving to the US is just a small cake for the lead party to handle.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#876

Post by vkou »

oefrha wrote: post #114
lukan wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And maybe the US will learn again, that a great deal is something that people can rely on?

The guy still has like ~35% approval ratings according to every poll there is, and that’s after weekly displays of outright corruption from him and his family, and “winning” the same war dozens of times already with no end in sight. The number hardly even budged YTD. You’re telling me that this country is capable of learning?

Well, he did deliver on his promise of $1.99 gas.

He didn't say that it would be $1.99/liter.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#877

Post by kstenerud »

steveBK123 wrote: post #345
kstenerud wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is and always has been a one-trick-pony: Shock and awe with a ridiculously over-the-top threat to shake his opponent and anchor the discussion high, then "accept" a deal that's better than any that could have been achieved with a calm opponent (pure bullying). His second weapon is throwing a monkey wrench into the works after agreeing to something. Keep the opponent on their back heel. It works well, until it d…

Right it probably works in real estate if you aren’t dealing with the same trading partners often. It is a business where dirtbag behavior is the norm. May also explain why he stopped doing actual NYC RE dev and moved onto his licensing model in dozens of cities (new pools of suckers). But when every threat & walk back is covered in national media, and he is playing the same game with the same big trading partners ..…

Carney's speech yesterday was masterful:

Another prominent justification for U.S. tariffs has been their claim that, since the United States runs, quote, a 'trade deficit' with Canada, we were 'ripping them off.' Also a quote. But the U.S.’s narrow merchandise trade deficit only exists because the U.S. buys so much of its energy from Canada. Canada fuels American growth: supplying 99 per cent of their natural gas imports, 85 per cent of their electricity imports, 60 per cent of their crude oil imports. I don’t think they want us to stop sending any of that energy.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#878

Post by dgudkov »

ActionHank wrote: post #398
luckyjajj wrote: post #313

Won’t work out well for either side, namely citizens and leadership aside. Wearing my forecasting hat… Canada holding $200 billion in USA treasuries, one of the largest exporters of oil into the USA, and integrated supply chains for everyday goods. A fast and painful price shock is coming for every average American. Canada has and will continue to be very dependent on the USA. No amount of new trade partners can chan…

Australian beef is cheaper than Canadian beef, in Canada, the ocean is not the obstacle.

Australian beef is of worse quality. It should be cheaper.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/australian-beef-...

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#879

Post by gdilla »

oefrha wrote: post #114
lukan wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And maybe the US will learn again, that a great deal is something that people can rely on?

The guy still has like ~35% approval ratings according to every poll there is, and that’s after weekly displays of outright corruption from him and his family, and “winning” the same war dozens of times already with no end in sight. The number hardly even budged YTD. You’re telling me that this country is capable of learning?

no they can't. After J6, it was over. America did nothing. the coddling of white fragility is too strong.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#880

Post by frm88 »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #626
Animats wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's happening. The rest of the world is moving away from the US as a trading partner. Trump is just too flaky to deal with. Canada now exports oil to China instead of the US, for example. The EU is moving towards self-sufficiency in financial services. What the Trump Administration does not get is that the US is no longer central to the world economy. Everyone else has a lot more productive capacity now. Trump is…

The US is desperately selling currency so it can buy the Yen so that Japan doesn’t ditch its US treasuries.

And even that was a betrayal of European allies since the US sold Euros without notifyong the ECB. Lagarde will see to it that such a thing never happens again. The trust, though, is gone.

https://www.ft.com/content/d9922d0b-51a0-48be-811b-42e08f909...

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