Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The politics were mostly fine, but the students, especially those post-COVID, were the problem. I'm not sure this distinction can be made, really. > And don't get me started on the false disability claims (see [0] for a taste). If you even verbalize questioning one, you're eligible for discrimination. Case in point. It's exactly because of the politics both that the students feel empowered to make those claims, and…
I thought the politics refer to basically the office politics, not the general political environment. The previous comment was talking about the politics that made being a high school teacher not fun, which I took to mean the demands of administration and other faculty, possibly parents as well.
Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM
871–880 of 925 posts
Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM
#872Earlier quoted context omitted.
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lmao, you're completely out to lunch, my friend is a teacher in one of the most well funded districts in the entire country and it's a decent job but it's an incredible amount of work and he's not making an amazing wage considering how much he needs to work outside of school hours i can only imagine the horrors faced by teachers even on the other side of the bay, much less in a red state that isn't the fourth largest…
There are about 3.5 million public school teachers in the US. The idea that they are incredible is not credible. As an Air Force brat, I attended many diverse public schools. Some teachers were good, some were not, most were ordinary folks. I don't recall any being incredible, though this teacher was definitely incredible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaime_Escalante
Any thoughts on this documentary: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1566648/ ?
The Department of Education has spent somewhere between $5 and $6 trillion since its inception, with no measurable improvement in results.
Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM
#873Earlier quoted context omitted.
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lmao, you're completely out to lunch, my friend is a teacher in one of the most well funded districts in the entire country and it's a decent job but it's an incredible amount of work and he's not making an amazing wage considering how much he needs to work outside of school hours i can only imagine the horrors faced by teachers even on the other side of the bay, much less in a red state that isn't the fourth largest…
After a few tests, I noticed a pattern. Whenever one of the four answers was "all of the above" or "none of the above", that was the correct answer. So I went to the teacher and asked him about that. He leaned over conspiratorially and said "you're right. They're like that because the kids need a break." Then he laughed. I liked him, he was a good egg.
When I was little, my dad taught Air Force ROTC at the local university. He'd sprinkle the test with questions like "what is the insignia on a Soviet fighter jet?" On the classroom wall was a picture of a Soviet fighter jet. The students would still get it wrong. (The answer is "red star".) It was a favorite story of his.
Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM
#874Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
lmao, you're completely out to lunch, my friend is a teacher in one of the most well funded districts in the entire country and it's a decent job but it's an incredible amount of work and he's not making an amazing wage considering how much he needs to work outside of school hours i can only imagine the horrors faced by teachers even on the other side of the bay, much less in a red state that isn't the fourth largest…
The point of what I posted is the premium value of the benefits package.
Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM
#875Why do we have such an easy time accepting peoples intrinsic athletic ability and such a difficult time accepting people's intrinsic mental ability? To me this is a 1:1 comparison, but people lose their mind when I make the comparison. College isn't for everyone just like amateur league sport isn't for everyone. I feel like I am going to a minor league baseball game and seeing a shortstop on the field with the motor…
Because intrinsic ability is such a vanishingly small part of the equation that we can't know who could actually be the best until we actually give everyone a fair shot. There might be the rare generational talent that, starting in their discipline at age 18 with no prior exposure and poor nutrition, education, health, exercise, etc, could outcompete your average loser brought up with every advantage and private less…
The sticking point is that there is a big difference between theory and practice. We end up with elimination of 8th grade algebra in SF, abandoning graduation requirements in Oregon, the Chicago teachers union tweeting that "testing is white supremacy", promoting kids before they have achieved grade level performance, political indoctrination in classrooms (both parties do this), dividing kids into identity groups (oppressors and oppressed), promotion of whole language learning over phonics, and active attacks on the concept of merit.
Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM
#876Earlier quoted context omitted.
The politicians don't accept that students need remedial courses. They passed AB705 and AB1705 to prevent a community college from putting someone in a remedial classes unless it had very strong evidence they wouldn't be able to pass a regular (transfer-level) class. So if you go to a community college and intend to study for a STEM degree, you'll be placed in a calculus class.
> They passed AB705 and AB1705 to prevent a community college from putting someone in a remedial classes unless it had very strong evidence they wouldn't be able to pass a regular (transfer-level) class. Why? Did someone make students graduating from high schools who go on to need remedial courses into some kind of metric for the high schools, and the politicians are trying to "solve" the schools' low scores on this…
While it seems obvious that some students should be redirected to remedial classes, the evidence is that very few students made it past those courses. IOW, the obvious solution wasn't working.
Being an engineer, my instinct would be to fix those classes so that they did work. However, legislators think at a different level and reasoned that the remedial classes constituted a false promise that costs students dearly (time, money, hopes, and dreams).
Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM
#877Earlier quoted context omitted.
> All the students at Harvard are all selected from the tail end of the distribution and are very capable. It seems like there is a pretty good way to handle this. Make the only letter grades A and F, i.e. it's pass/fail, but then additionally provide class rank percentile. Even if everyone gets an A, in a class of 1000 students, someone is going to be at the 90th percentile and someone is going to be at the 10th and…
If I get a group of 30 kids together that are incredibly intelligent and highly motivated and have had “you must be the best and you must get A” beaten into their success and livelihood since before they could talk by their parents (and let’s be real that is a good chunk of Harvard grads) - do you really think that telling them that they are going to be stack ranked against each other is a healthy and productive thin…
Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM
#878Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because intrinsic ability is such a vanishingly small part of the equation that we can't know who could actually be the best until we actually give everyone a fair shot. There might be the rare generational talent that, starting in their discipline at age 18 with no prior exposure and poor nutrition, education, health, exercise, etc, could outcompete your average loser brought up with every advantage and private less…
You've done a nice job articulating why people support equity programs. The sticking point is that there is a big difference between theory and practice. We end up with elimination of 8th grade algebra in SF, abandoning graduation requirements in Oregon, the Chicago teachers union tweeting that "testing is white supremacy", promoting kids before they have achieved grade level performance, political indoctrination in…
What makes it difficult to have productive conversations, is that it's very difficult to untangle who has a problem with a given program, versus with the concept of equity (as a theory to make things fair), versus with the fundamental goal of making things more fair, since not everyone even knows for themselves what side they're on, and they freely swap arguments and forces. This is, of course, hardly unique to equity programs, but I think that schools are somewhat unusually susceptible to strong, uninformed opinions, since everyone has to interact with them at some point in their life, and is affected by how they're run for the rest of their life, but not everybody has actually recently bothered to look under the hood. But, I will agree that there is nuance, and we may find that our current approach to thinking about equity programs is fundamentally flawed, and there's even some broad benefit to some level of tracking. I just want to push against people that follow their intuition and present that as established fact.
I will leave you with perhaps my most controversial opinion on the matter, and open myself up even further to criticism by saying that I don't have children, and don't currently intend to ever: People love to throw around the truism that it's natural for parents to want the best for their kids, that you can't ever blame parents for doing whatever they can to give their children every advantage, that, on an individual level, you shouldn't expect altruism from parents if it involves any sacrifice on their kids part. I strongly disagree. I think that parents should be able to recognize when granting their children an advantage disproportionately harms other kids, should value challenging their kids, pushing them to step up, to make their own sacrifices for the sake of others. If nothing else will motivate them, it should at least be clear that their kid will have to live in a world populated by other people's kids, and so we should want those other children to also be happy, healthy, functional, and well educated. Their child may face more competition, but that will also be healthy for them, and help them grow and develop as an adult. I think it's asinine to argue that parents should have a free pass to behave antisocially for the benefit of only their own kids, that it's a bit of a thought-terminating cliche that excuses parents from prosocial expectations. I understand that parents are, fiercely motivated to protect and nurture their children, and I don't think that instinct is wrong, but I think it can easily grow unhealthy, and that they have every bit as much of a responsibility as everyone else to think of others. Maybe more, since those others will eventually be the people that shape their children's world.
Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM
#879Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not true. Math aptitude is not evenly distributed.
Good education, where one is imbued with motivation to learn and develop knowledge. That's not evenly distributed. Anybody can learn math.
Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM
#880Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're misunderstanding the problem. It's not that the UCs are admitting a bunch of special exceptions who failed out of high school math; these are people who got decent grades and are supposed to know the material.
Well, then. In that case, the simple solution is to admit more students in the first year, and aggressively flunk out the ones whose performance does not match their high school grades.