Live data from Hacker News

Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

dpa-international.com

871–880 of 1001 posts

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > ~20,000 people died due to the Earthquake > That's a non-sequitur. I think this is to establish that the large number of deaths from the disaster weren't due to the nuclear plant, which people seem to assume.

People assume it, I did not. Nor did I claim it. It is a non-sequitur because we aren't talking about deaths from natural disasters.

Okay, but this isn't a one-on-one conversation. It's a public, multi-way message board involving people who will assume that.

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> time and cost as much as anything else you people have been saying that for at least twenty years. In the meantime the renewables have failed to produce a noticeable change in my part of europe, sentiment is increasingly pro-nuke but your adage keeps things still. Of course yf you never start, you never finish.

In my part of Europe (Hungary), on a sunny day we have more energy produced from solar (on top of about 50% nuclear) than we can actually use. Sometimes we're 110% zero-carbon and it's because of solar and nuclear. As of writing this comment our energy mix is 35.69% solar, 23.19% nuclear, 26.66% nuclear imported from Slovakia. The rest is hydro and solar from Austria and about 5% gas and biomass. In my opinion clean…

I am surprised that this is the case after reading how Orban was behaving on the matter of its oil and gas sources. I guess the big problem is that the economy and heating is still very fossil dependent ?

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the opposition from the not exactly environmentalist orgs? > "The failure of the U.S. nuclear power program ranks as the largest managerial disaster in business history, a disaster on a monumental scale ... only the blind, or the biased, can now think that the money has been well spent. It is a defeat for the U.S. consumer and for the competitiveness of U.S. industry, for the utilities that undertook the p…

The fossil fuel industries and their shills? Probably not lamenting the delay in moving way from fossil fuels the same way the environmental groups ought to be. Notice that it was also them (specifically Russia, a major petroleum exporting country) funding those anti-nuclear environmental groups: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-9-2022-00127...

Well, the marketing brocure said "too cheap too meter" but the result is often a White Elephant. Please explain how the nuclear folks missed the "too cheap to meter" target on account of some external shills. That is: how does one ensure that the next round of nuclear will not White Elepant like many of the previous rounds did? Besides the taxpayers taking it on the chin, as they usually do.

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#874
post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> time and cost as much as anything else you people have been saying that for at least twenty years. In the meantime the renewables have failed to produce a noticeable change in my part of europe, sentiment is increasingly pro-nuke but your adage keeps things still. Of course yf you never start, you never finish.

> In the meantime the renewables have failed to produce a noticeable change in my part of europe I don't know, but I've seen quite noticeable change. First, you spend 20 years paying several times more for fuel and electricity because "we need to fight global warming" and "ensure energy security from those russians," and then they tell you, hey, global warming is actually worse than ever, and yeah, we are dependent o…

I don't understand your point

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#875
post #866
post #849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sale price of a house has little to do with labour. It's mostly about the number of humans competing to live in an area vs. how easy it is to get land in that area so that a new house can be built. I.e. the ratio of how many humans are involved vs the most limiting resource for producing the thing in question. There is the point that how wealthy the competing humans are is also a major factor. But you're trying t…

> It's mostly about the number of humans competing to live in an area vs. how easy it is to get land in that area so that a new house can be built What attracts people to a place is often all the other people there. The actual land area is not close to being a limiting factor, we only build on about 1% of it. > why everyone doesn't just get a house (if someone can't afford a house, why not just upskill and learn how…

I don't buy the idea that Europe might have abandoned the concept of childhood education all of a sudden. Most people I spend quite a lot more than 5 years learning skills; I know someone who spent 15 years in the education system to end up working at a petrol station. This long list is not relevant. These skills are clearly easy enough to learn.

> Clearly you've also never gotten a line by line price estimate for a house where you could save €50k by doing the plastering yourself, like I have turned down.

So how do you explain poverty? Why don't these people spend 12 months learning how to plaster and start making bank?

Could there be some important limitation based on physics that you're failing to account for?

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is just that capitalism is a cancer. Nobody has actually cracked the code on how capitalism can work without perpetual growth. Leaders are looking at Japan and they are panicking. Fascists are demanding more white babies.

FYI, socialism also cannot work without infinite growth.

Large scale socialism maybe. It seems to work fine in small hunter gatherer bands.

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#877
post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without nuclear wind and solar will ALWAYS require gas turbines for backup. So this myth is what you need to tell yourself we need nuclear?

What else would we use for backup when wind and solar aren't producing enough power? Gas, coal, and nuclear are the only real options.

Are you pretending batteries don't exist? And long distance interconnects? And not even talking about hydro, geothermal, wave, and who knows what else.

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#878

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is "simple" with hindsight in mind. After SL-1 we realized that that we needed to allow a reactor to fully shut down even with the most important control rod stuck in a fully withdrawn position. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SL-1#Accident_and_response

> Everything is "simple" with hindsight in mind. The fixes are still simple and cost little. I used to work at Boeing on airliner design. The guiding principle is "what happens when X fails" and design for that. It is not "design so X cannot fail", as we do not know how to design things that cannot fail. For Fukushima, it is "what happens if the seawall fails", not "the seawall cannot fail". Airliners are safe not be…

>at Boeing on airliner design. The guiding principle is "what happens when X fails"...Airliners are safe not because critical parts cannot fail, but because there is a backup plan for every critical part.

And yet creating a culture that is vigilant and consistently applies due diligence is hard. To that point: Boeing identified the 737-Max MCAS as 'hazardous' in their analysis. Putting aside that 'catastrophic' was the more appropriate rating, they still did not appropriately design their system when that system failed. (By their own processes, 'hazardous' meant it should not be designed with single-point hardware failures)* That implies it is as much a human/cultural issue as a technical one.

* before any claims that the system was designed just fine because the pilots could have avoided the issue with the appropriate actions, those are administrative hazard mitigations which are generally considered less desirable than hardware fixes, especially when engineering mitigations are already installed but not used. Removing the hazard >> engineering controls >> administrative controls >> PPE. To the GPP point, hindsight is easy, managing risk, people, and processes is hard.

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#880
post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was viable it would have happened already. We have a massive oversupply of solar and wind, particularly on the west coast. Generation is the easy part. We have terrible storage and transmission, the parts that are actually expensive.

> If it was viable it would have happened already. It is happening, all over the world, with a persistent and rapid growth curve. > We have terrible storage and transmission, the parts that are actually expensive. Better cut those tariffs on cheap Chinese batteries (and aluminium for the transmission). Not that anyone would build one in the current political reality, but China produces enough aluminium that it would…

Viability is not just 'do the physical materials exist'. Building transmission in the US is almost entirely impossible at scale because he have no political will to do so and it's a regulatory nightmare. We can't just bury an entire mountain valley under 300 feet of water or evict a county of people to make room for a project like China can.

Ignoring the hard part and saying the aluminum exists is not even wrong, it's counterproductive. Until you solve the political component the materials might as well all be sitting on pallets in a warehouse, it doesn't help any.

Post reply on HN