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Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

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871–880 of 944 posts

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the claim is that if a CEO would make the decision not to pursue a particular revenue stream that the company would be sued. This is bullshit.

To everything you can find exceptions, no one's arguing what you're claiming. And you have to read between the lines here, a board doesn't have to remove a CEO for a decision, what I'm trying to point out is the CEO knows their job, and the board knows their job. Just like there's things you know if you do you won't get a good pay raise or bonus (or gasp, get fired), the CEO knows how to avoid that in the long term.…

I’m not claiming CEOs are legally required to chase every conceivable revenue dollar or that they’d lose a lawsuit if they don’t. Corporate law doesn’t work that way, and no serious person thinks it does.

What does exist is a well-understood governance and incentive regime: boards evaluate CEOs on long-term shareholder value, compensation is tied to financial performance, and strategic restraint has to be justified in those terms. That doesn’t require lawsuits, and it doesn’t require explicit mandates. It’s how large public companies are run.

The fact that Apple could charge 50% and chooses not to doesn’t refute this — it just shows that extraction is constrained by regulation, backlash, and platform risk. But once those constraints weaken, dominant platforms reliably increase extraction. That’s an empirical pattern, not a legal theory.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To everything you can find exceptions, no one's arguing what you're claiming. And you have to read between the lines here, a board doesn't have to remove a CEO for a decision, what I'm trying to point out is the CEO knows their job, and the board knows their job. Just like there's things you know if you do you won't get a good pay raise or bonus (or gasp, get fired), the CEO knows how to avoid that in the long term.…

I’m not claiming CEOs are legally required to chase every conceivable revenue dollar or that they’d lose a lawsuit if they don’t. Corporate law doesn’t work that way, and no serious person thinks it does. What does exist is a well-understood governance and incentive regime: boards evaluate CEOs on long-term shareholder value, compensation is tied to financial performance, and strategic restraint has to be justified i…

> That’s an empirical pattern, not a legal theory.

That's fine

> It’s their fiduciary duty.

Then don't make legal claims.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why could Apple not charge a percentage for any user using their mobile device? Why would it be limited to app store?

Because they don't control those. Apple could choose to only allow users to access websites that pay them a bit 30% fee, but users would notice the web was turned off on their device. They don't notice when the app store does it.

Until a court order stopped them, Apple was collecting a 27% tax on certain external payments even though they didn't control the payment rails. They required developers to report their external payment revenue and sent them invoices. Developers had to commit to that or their apps would be rejected for having external payments.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#874
post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think they're very overused I disagree, native apps on iOS have important abilities that no web application can match. The inability to control cache long-term is alone a dealbreaker if trying to create an experience with minimal friction.

Service workers allow you to control cache in web apps; you may be a bit out of date. There are hardware APIs for some stuff that only works in native (cors, raw tcp), but 99% of apps don't need those.

I think the parent may be referring to the fact that safari/webkit will evict all localstorage/indexeddb/caches etc after 7 days of not visiting a site. And apparently this now extends to PWAs making it a pretty big blog to building any infrequently accessed PWA that needs to persist user data locally.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#875
post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could opt out - by sticking to web platforms. Apple cannot charge for that. However, apple does attempt to gimp the web platforms on mobile to "subtly" push for apps.

They can opt out like you can opt out of using a phone. Sure, you won't die, but you won't have much of a social life either.

You do know a phone has a browser installed right?

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they don't control those. Apple could choose to only allow users to access websites that pay them a bit 30% fee, but users would notice the web was turned off on their device. They don't notice when the app store does it.

Until a court order stopped them, Apple was collecting a 27% tax on certain external payments even though they didn't control the payment rails. They required developers to report their external payment revenue and sent them invoices. Developers had to commit to that or their apps would be rejected for having external payments.

It's at least "reasonable" that if the app was where users derived usage, and would've purchased thru the app but for the external purchasing option, then apple has a case for it.

However, there's no such case for web (as in, web _only_).

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#877
post #207

You can be the patron of a creator and Apple in the same time! Jokes aside, this is awful...I like/use Apple products but this unacceptable, I hope everyone dodges this and pays through the website

If it is really so unacceptable, why don't you stop buying apple products?

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#878
post #203

Just stop publishing the app, not every little thing needs an app. What the use for the app anyway? Notifications and apple pay?

Clients and customers will not stand for this. I don’t agree but I’ve seen it enough times now it doesn’t surprise me. They want an app, doesn’t matter if you have an identical web-based version that does the exact same thing, they want an app. I write cross platform apps using Vue/Quasar (previous Angular/Ionic, and before that Titanium), I have put up a web-based version of their app (as a fallback and as an early…

OK, but you sound like you consult for businesses. Who may not be rational. That doesn't necessarily mean end users are demanding an app. They could be, but your anecdote here doesn't support that conclusion. Patreon's clients are end users.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#879
post #327

Apple’s App Store profits on commissions from digital sales Revenue $32 B Operating Costs $7 B [1] Estimated Profit $25 B Operating Margin ~78% [1] R&D, security, hosting, human review, and including building and maintaining developer tools Xcode, APIs, and SDKs. Apple could take just 7% cut and still make 20% profits. Fun Fact: During the Epic trial, it was revealed that Apple's profit margins on the App Store were…

Apple's App Store business model is the same as Nintendo's eShop business model.

Obviously Epic would like to pay lower platform fees to Apple than it pays to Nintendo, but there is no logical reason why it should.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#880

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It rips off everyone . Epic Games went to federal court over this with Apple like 40 fuckin times - a related fun read for you.

I’d be cheering on Epic Games if they were going after Sony and Nintendo with equal fervour. Personally, I don’t see why any developer should be allowed free rein on anyone else’s platform when it comes to the selling of games and virtual hats. Personally I think Apple should have two pricing tiers: one for interactive entertainment, and one for everything else. For interactive entertainment, a flat 30% on everything…

Many people on HN seem to think that it's perfectly OK for Nintendo or Sony to charge a 30% platform fee for Fortnite but somehow not OK for Apple (or Google) to charge a 30% platform fee for Fortnite.

Epic wants to force Apple to lower its platform fees so that it can pay lower fees to Apple for Fortnite (technically IAP since Fortnite is "free to play") than what it pays to Sony and Nintendo (or Google for that matter) for Fortnite.

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