Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

theguardian.com

871–880 of 894 posts

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#871
post #833
post #806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The killings are not only direct hits with bullets. They are also blocking food, medicine and healthcare. Noone can survive without food. The goal is not to kill hamas, that was just the excuse, it is to clear the ground for new settlements.

I think the total reported deaths from food issues - as reported by Hamas mind you - are in the 1,000 range. Which is still a very small number for a war zone. > The goal is not to kill hamas, that was just the excuse, it is to clear the ground for new settlements. Israel has explicitly stated that this is NOT the goal, are you in a position to change their policy or something? I don't get how you think you can deter…

I watch independent news from official sources, not an american news source.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#872
post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are quite a few inaccuracies here. Palestine is not in Arabia but in the Levant, which was conquered by Arabs from the Byzantine Empire in the 7th c. as part of the Arab-Byzantine wars, and came under the Rashidun Caliphate, the first incarnation of the Arab Empire (which also conquered parts of Europe, BTW, not to mention that people in Morocco or Tunisia speak Arabic for pretty much the same reason people in…

> not to mention that people in Morocco or Tunisia speak Arabic for pretty much the same reason people in Peru or Mexico speak Spanish Not really. The European colonization of Latin America (and North America in general) was extremely bloody, and rooted in eradication and subjugation and erasure of the local culture. The native languages in the Americas are all but gone and been replaced with Spanish/Portugese/etc. W…

The Arab conquest of the Middle East and North Africa (which is not the same as the Islamisation in East Asia) indeed wasn't as horrendous as the Spanish conquest of Central and South America, but it wasn't entirely peaceful, either, and even in Latin America today there are millions of native Mayan speakers.

Of course, Arab colonialism (Arabisation), European colonialism - of both the settler and non-settler type - and Zionist settler-colonialism are all distinct phenomena, with some important similarities and some important differences. Even the violent struggle between settler-colonial forces and colonial forces are very different between, say, America and Israel.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#873
post #833
post #806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The killings are not only direct hits with bullets. They are also blocking food, medicine and healthcare. Noone can survive without food. The goal is not to kill hamas, that was just the excuse, it is to clear the ground for new settlements.

I think the total reported deaths from food issues - as reported by Hamas mind you - are in the 1,000 range. Which is still a very small number for a war zone. > The goal is not to kill hamas, that was just the excuse, it is to clear the ground for new settlements. Israel has explicitly stated that this is NOT the goal, are you in a position to change their policy or something? I don't get how you think you can deter…

The 1000 civilians dead were in connection to food distribution. That number should be 0 even in a war zone.

Israel has been taking over palestinian villages for a very long time, murdering the inhabitants. The government is fueling the hate. They aren't even affraid to say it out aloud. I have seen several reports where they are calling for genocide.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#874
post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that they could do similar attacks to the Tokyo firebombing (or much worse), but choose not to. Yes, that is a sign of restraint, obviously.

80% of buildings in Gaza are destroyed. There are well documented cases of arbitrary killings of civilians and attacks on hospitals. IDF is routinely demanding entire cities to be evacuated, knowing that not all people can comply with such an order. Multiple war crimes and crimes against humanity investigations have been opened by national and international prosecutors. It is very obvious that the only restraint that…

Demanding cities be evacuated is what you do when you have restraint. Otherwise you would just kill everyone inside. If they had not done this, you would also claim that it's evidence of lack of restraint.

Beyond that, everything you wrote is perfectly compatible with the IDF showing tremendous restraint. It is all more or less inevitable with any war in such an environment. All of it happened in Iraq with the Americans, for example.

- Buildings destroyed aren't people

- Documented cases are just that - cases. You need to demonstrate a pattern at scale. Bad cases are inevitable among millions of interactions.

- Investigations opened is a signal of political incentives as much as actions taken.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#875
post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that they could do similar attacks to the Tokyo firebombing (or much worse), but choose not to. Yes, that is a sign of restraint, obviously.

The only thing it's a sign of is that the Israelis face restraints from political and PR pressures that did not apply to bombing Tokyo.

Goalpost moving.

Now you're saying, okay they do have restraint, but what I really meant was their restraint is driven by the PR concerns, not by their own moral hearts. Well, that's pretty different accusation now.

I'm glad you've conceded the original point that they do indeed have restraint. Thank you.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#876
post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the Oct 7 attacks the Palestinian population has not shrunk. War deaths have roughly equalled births. Are you claiming that the IDF is trying their hardest to kill all the Palestinians they can, and that this is the best they can do? Really?

I'm too late to edit my previous reply, but wanted to add a few sources so here we go - Fact checking services debunking the claim of population not shrinking since October 2023: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/dec/06/instagram-... https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/gaza-population-growth-proj... Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics' population estimates, as of July 2025 - down 6% in one year since 2024,…

You are confusing emigration with death. We are not concerned with who is physically in Gaza, we are concerned with births and deaths.

There are less people physically in Gaza now because a bunch of people emigrated. Not because of deaths.

The overall group of families who lived in Gaza on Oct 7 2023 is about the same number of humans now. A few hundred thousand have emigrated. About 40-60k were killed. About 50k were born.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#877
post #872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not to mention that people in Morocco or Tunisia speak Arabic for pretty much the same reason people in Peru or Mexico speak Spanish Not really. The European colonization of Latin America (and North America in general) was extremely bloody, and rooted in eradication and subjugation and erasure of the local culture. The native languages in the Americas are all but gone and been replaced with Spanish/Portugese/etc. W…

The Arab conquest of the Middle East and North Africa (which is not the same as the Islamisation in East Asia) indeed wasn't as horrendous as the Spanish conquest of Central and South America, but it wasn't entirely peaceful, either, and even in Latin America today there are millions of native Mayan speakers. Of course, Arab colonialism (Arabisation), European colonialism - of both the settler and non-settler type -…

Islamic conquests - not Arab. It’s worth remembering that the longest-lasting Caliphate was the Ottoman Caliphate. As I’ve noted, Islam transcends race and ethnicity. Scholars have acknowledged that mistakes were made by some during these conquests, but such actions were contrary to the core teachings of Islam and have been openly recognized as such.

What is happening in occupied Palestine today—witnessed by the world and actively enabled by certain Western powers—is a tragic chapter in human history. History will judge it with the same moral clarity and horror as the atrocities committed by a certain German regime during and around the WWII era. Already, we are seeing a growing awareness among Western civilians, who are beginning to recognize and challenge what their governments are supporting.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#878
post #872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Arab conquest of the Middle East and North Africa (which is not the same as the Islamisation in East Asia) indeed wasn't as horrendous as the Spanish conquest of Central and South America, but it wasn't entirely peaceful, either, and even in Latin America today there are millions of native Mayan speakers. Of course, Arab colonialism (Arabisation), European colonialism - of both the settler and non-settler type -…

Islamic conquests - not Arab. It’s worth remembering that the longest-lasting Caliphate was the Ottoman Caliphate. As I’ve noted, Islam transcends race and ethnicity. Scholars have acknowledged that mistakes were made by some during these conquests, but such actions were contrary to the core teachings of Islam and have been openly recognized as such. What is happening in occupied Palestine today—witnessed by the worl…

> Islamic conquests - not Arab.

The Arab Empire's conquests are called both Muslim conquests or Arab conquests (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests).

> It’s worth remembering that the longest-lasting Caliphate was the Ottoman Caliphate. As I’ve noted, Islam transcends race and ethnicity.

Yes, but I was talking specifically about the Arab conquests that preceded the Ottoman Empire by centuries. The Arab conquests were in the 7th and 8th centuries. The First Crusade was in the 11th century. The Ottoman conquests were in the 14th century.

> Scholars have acknowledged that mistakes were made by some during these conquests, but such actions were contrary to the core teachings of Islam and have been openly recognized as such.

I'm not talking about religion but about history in response to a statement about the crusades having introduced warfare to the Middle East. Not only is that obviously not even remotely true, but the Arab Empire conquered and colonised the Levant, Maghreb, and Europe's Iberian Peninsula centuries before the crusades. All of this happened a long time ago, no one who was there is alive today, and I'm not trying to sit in judgment. This is just something that happened.

> History will judge it with the same moral clarity and horror as the atrocities committed by a certain German regime during and around the WWII era.

Not everything needs to be compared to the holocaust, nor, for that matter, to the atrocities in Syria this past decade that killed over half a million people and displaced almost 7 million. The atrocities in Palestine are bad enough without being "the same horror" as the killing of 80-90% of Eastern Europe's Jewish population. Nothing justifies mass killings, and each of those atrocities stands on its own.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#879

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't every army conduct "mass surveillance"? What do you think all those satellites with cameras are doing orbiting the planet? Wouldn't the opposite be incredibly immoral? Attacking/bombing/etc without large scale surveillance would largely mean increased collateral damage.

Are you seriously equating observing an area using satellites with indiscriminately monitoring everyone's calls, messages, and possibly hacking their devices?

I case of Hezbollah it was very much worth it.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#880
post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm too late to edit my previous reply, but wanted to add a few sources so here we go - Fact checking services debunking the claim of population not shrinking since October 2023: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/dec/06/instagram-... https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/gaza-population-growth-proj... Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics' population estimates, as of July 2025 - down 6% in one year since 2024,…

You are confusing emigration with death. We are not concerned with who is physically in Gaza, we are concerned with births and deaths. There are less people physically in Gaza now because a bunch of people emigrated. Not because of deaths. The overall group of families who lived in Gaza on Oct 7 2023 is about the same number of humans now. A few hundred thousand have emigrated. About 40-60k were killed. About 50k wer…

Actually a few hundred thousand have been killed, the ~60k figure from the Gaza health ministry is just the deaths they've been able to actually confirm, which is just deaths at hospitals (which is why that number has grown so little this year, because the vast majority of hospitals in Gaza have been destroyed by the IDF).

See for example this July 2024 estimate of close to 200k deaths (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...) or this more recent estimate of over 600k (https://arena.org.au/politics-of-counting-gazas-dead/ )

Sure, they're estimates not proven statistics, but the situation on the ground means it's impossible for anyone to have an accurate count. What's important is that we don't look at the relatively small (yet still depressingly large) number of confirmed deaths of known named people, tracked by the Gaza health ministry, as if it's a count of the actual number of deaths. Hell, even the IDF recently claimed that there have been 90k deaths (when they were boasting that they had killed 30k Hamas fighters and that they had "only" killed 2 civilians to every 1 Hamas) - and, setting aside the IDF's track record of lying and their incentive to claim less civilian deaths than reality, even if they were telling the truth that would still be limited to deaths they were actually able to track and confirm, not the many other deaths that weren't officially recorded.

Post reply on HN