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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#871

Post by jekwoooooe »

niemandhier wrote: post #108

This comment thread is the most civilised online discussion I have seen in a long while about this particular topic, despite people coming from diverse backgrounds and disagreeing. In this sense, hackernews gives me hope that online culture is not lost yet.

It seems civilized because comments that call out Iranian propaganda get flagged. Only one opinion is allowed on the internet. Israel is demonized beyond belief. No one talks about US aid to Egypt, a literal dictatorship, or Saudi Arabia, or the genocide in Yemen. Nope. Just Israel.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#872

Post by itchyouch »

edanm wrote: post #626
the__alchemist wrote: post #218

Some context first so my opinion isn't misconstrued as as leftist stereotype. This is within context of the behavior described in the article. - I'm a Jew in USA, and served in the military for more than a decade. - I used to get annoyed by the Palestinian protests I'd see in the years before this, and generally sided with Israel, and the operations its military performed in counter-Shia-militia operations etc in the…

I'll provide context too - I'm a Jewish Israeli. I'd probably be considered left (or even far-left) by Israeli standards, but I'm in the "pro-Israeli" camp as conventionally understood online. This Haaretz article is very troubling. To the extent it's accurate, there's not much question that it reflects war crimes. A few thoughts: 1. The article itself says there is an ongoing investigation into some of these accusat…

This article isn't really about whether there's some situation where there were some wrong doings, but it's yet another piece adding to the overall body of Israel's offenses against humanity.

As a random bystander with no real skin in this conflict, other than being American, what I can say is that for a while, it did seem that Israel the country had to unfairly deal with hate and war and it seemed quite unfortunate.

Most of the horrifying stories that would occasionally rise up seemed unbelievable, if not overblown.

Though in recent weeks, social media & news has provided another perspective.

1. Numerous Israeli citizens mocking Palestinians and having the gall to upload it to social media.

2. Numerous classrooms and children being taught that non-Israeli's do no deserve the same human rights as Israelis, and the children from a young age reveling in their superiority.

3. Videos showing citizens in normal cars being a nuisance to Palestinian medical vehicles.

4. Videos showing the absolute decimation of Gaza.

5. Israeli news articles reporting 70% and more of the population supporting certain war actions.

6. Ex-IDF soldiers whistleblowing the atrocious acts they needed to commit.

7. Citizens barbequing and hanging out right along the Gaza's border as Palestinian folks on the other side starve.

8. The video of Palestinian medics getting murdered on the side of the highway.

9. Pictures of the logos on IDF uniforms showing "our promised land" with a map showing borders that claim the land of Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon.

I don't think there is something "broken" in aid delivery. It appears that there is a systemic and concerted effort by the bulk of the government and citizens (100% of who have to serve in the IDF) to colonize and usurp Palestinian land and beyond.

And it seems that the latest set of conflicts have pulled back the curtain on the attitudes held by both the Israeli citizens and government.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#873

Post by itchyouch »

neepi wrote: post #819
quietbritishjim wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The information is unverified because Israel does not allow journalists into Gaza.

[flagged]

The "nuanced" rhetoric to add doubt that things may not seem like what they are, is tiresome at this point. neepi's comments seem reasonable, innocent until proven guilty, but it's simply a strategy to exhaust onlookers with bureaucratic formalities of investigation and prosecution under the masquerade of reasonable justice.

It's a cop out and putting one's head in the sand to the real atrocities of zionistic ambitions of usurping Palestinian land.

In America, if someone trespasses into one's home and the home owner kills the trespasser, the vast majority of the time, the owner is justified and there are numerous court cases we can point to. Recently, it has become clear to me that Palestinians are simply trying to defend their own property/land/humanity.

Israel's trespasses are finally seeing the light in the latest set of conflicts and folks reading this comment that are unsure should spend 30 minutes looking up the videos of the conflict.

Israel blocking aid, murdering medical personnel with impunity, the before/after of Gaza, the list of crimes perpetuated by the government is undeniable at this point.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#874

Post by itchyouch »

xg15 wrote: post #190
alluro2 wrote: post #177

I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength. When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an e…

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

My recent thoughts on why the US is complicit is that Israel is America's "bad cop" of the world. The trade is that the US will allow Israel to act with impunity in the region as long as Israel gets to be the bad guys to the world.

The reasoning for this is action about nuclear weapons programs. Israel gets to have nukes, developed by sending US expertise to Israel, while Israel has not been subject to nuclear investigation programs.

If things ever got bad, the US doesn't want to nuke the world, then face retribution, they want Israel to shoulder that burden.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#875

Post by itchyouch »

niemandhier wrote: post #108

This comment thread is the most civilised online discussion I have seen in a long while about this particular topic, despite people coming from diverse backgrounds and disagreeing. In this sense, hackernews gives me hope that online culture is not lost yet.

I don't really see much debate. The top comments and votes are pretty clearly pro-human.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#876

Post by itchyouch »

krembo wrote: post #821
wuschel wrote: post #307

How credible is the reporting in in Haaretz? I am normally fairly well accustomed to the reliability and credibility of newspapers, but I have never read this newspaper.

So nice that pro-Israeli comments get flagged and moderators do nothing about that. Talking about bias and censorship, I guess some contradictory thoughts are not very welcomed for some who think about themselves as standing in the frontlines of democracy. Also disappointed about @dang, there seems very little objective admin work done here.

I think this should be a moment of reflection that the world is waking up to the atrocities of Israel, and not a time to complain about censorship.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#877

Post by vharuck »

YZF wrote: post #733
tootie wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're misreading. The civilian casualties are very much intentional. They are being ordered to fire on unarmed people seeking food. There are verified reports of IDF targeting journalists and EMTs. I am also Jewish American and I am 100% convinced that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians. I find it utterly reprehensible that this opinion can ever be considered antisemitic since the actions of the Isra…

What is you definition of "genocide against the Palestinians"? Are you including Palestinians that are Israeli citizens? The West Bank? Those living outside the region? Word choice matters here. Is Israel executing a plan to kill all Gazans? I am 100% convinced Israel is not actually committing a genocide against Palestinians. That claim has no factual support. Do I agree with everything Israel is doing? No. Are ther…

Let's go by the ICC definition for genocide (Article 6 of their Elements of Crimes):

https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/Publications/Ele...

Israel has been killing Palestinian civilians. Israel has been restricting food and medical supplies going to Palestinian civilians. All of that was beyond reasonable in regard to military objectives (e.g., bombing hospitals to take out a weapons stash). Israel's political and military leaders have expressed their opinions that Palestinians (not just Hamas or militants) are an ethnicity deserving punishment.

Note that, in the ICC's definitions, genocide does not require intent to eliminate the entirety of a group. It only requires targeting people based on their belonging to a protected group with the intent to diminish that group.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#878

Post by okdood64 »

austin-cheney wrote: post #12

The biggest problem with this isn’t the horror of the actual war crime. The far more serious concern are the lengths the government will go to avoid holding anyone accountable. That is so much worse because it unintentionally endorses future crimes and challenges the offenders to take ever more offensive actions without fear of consequences.

For anyone else, who for some reason, feels compelled to comment without reading the article:

> Haaretz has learned that the Military Advocate General has instructed the IDF General Staff's Fact-Finding Assessment Mechanism – a body tasked with reviewing incidents involving potential violations of the laws of war – to investigate suspected war crimes at these sites.

Now what will come from this (a proper investigation, etc.), who knows.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#879

Post by aucisson_masque »

I know it’s an overly simplified view but it’s becoming more and more of a reality, Israel is the 21th century nazi.

Yeah it’s not aryan but israelian race that is superior to the Arabians, what’s the difference ?

They don’t send them in camp, they just destroy completely their land, demolish and populate with israelian. What’s the difference ? A family without home and earning is as good as dead.

There is still some democracy in Israel and a small part of the population opposed to that racism but for how long ? War always push people more and more to extremism.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#880

Post by LePetitPrince »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #660
LePetitPrince wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I always strikes me how the people that encourage the Palestinians to start wars they can't win are oblivious to how much of a shit bag they are for doing that.

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