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A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

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Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#871

Post by motorest »

almosthere wrote: post #848
IceHegel wrote: post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the biggest problems in the United States is the misallocation of ambitious people. The highly educated and ambitious people see finance, government, tech, and corporate executive tracks, as the way to convert their energies into social status. Even startups these days seem to be a case of too many chiefs, not enough Indians.

Well the problem is US wants to be the world's managers. And all we cared about is writing messenger apps. Totally missed the boat on building things, like houses, boats, and most of all new weird things we don't even have a concept for.

> Well the problem is US wants to be the world's managers.

I think the problem is more nuanced than that. The US was effectively "the world's managers", in the sense that their economic might, entrepreneur culture, and push for globalization resulted in a corporate structure where the ownership and executive levels were US whereas non-critical business domains reflected the local workforce, whether it was the US or not.

This setup worked great while the US dominated the world's economy and influenced their allies and trading partners to actively engage in globalization.

Now that Trump is pushing for isolationism, of course things change.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#872

Post by resters »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #857
resters wrote: post #632

This is extremely refreshing. I think that it would be possible to make something like this in the US for under $15K even. Cars and trucks are so over-engineered and come with tons of low value options intended to drive up the price. For a case in point, consider that headlights that turn on and off automatically in response to darkness (or rain) are not a standard feature on many cars, yet they include a manual swit…

BYD is also heavily subsidized by the Chinese government. If the us were not to fight back, the non subsidized industries would die, Chinese would stop subsidizing, rack up the price and competition would be too difficult to start again because of the monopoly on lithium and advance on technology. It's been done thousands of times with other industries and countries. Most recently Google, who had been giving Android…

China’s approach to funding BYD is meant to replace much of the capital it might raise in freer markets, providing subsidies, tax breaks, and preferential policies to offset limited access to liquid equity and debt markets.

This support, totaling $10-12 billion from 2018-2022 plus in-kind benefits, mirrors the role of U.S. automakers’ $160-220 billion in public market raises and $50-100 billion in private capital, but with less financial risk for BYD due to state backing.

I think what people are missing is that EVs can be dramatically simpler to manufacture than internal combustion vehicles. This leverages manufacturing advantages and so with or without subsidies, China has big advantages due to its advancements in manufacturing tech.

Recall when China started making hoverboards for a fraction of the price of a Segway? Making EVs at scale required largely the same manufacturing pipeline.

It is the foresight of China’s industrial policy, not the amount of subsidy that has created the manufacturing powerhouse China has become.

US attempts are crude (sledgehammer) methods that leave the market far less free with mostly downside for everyone and no industrial policy goals, only domestic incumbents being protected from reality.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#873

Post by [deleted] »

ksynwa wrote: post #856
refurb wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of BYD dominance, one needs to keep in mind the subsidy that the Chinese government is providing, such that they can sell cars below cost. https://www.shs-conferences.org/articles/shsconf/pdf/2024/27... Just 2018 to 2022, BYD received $5.9B. And that doesn't include all the indirect subsidies that went to suppliers like the battery manufacturers. It's a part of Chinese government strategy of "build it and th…

That is not that much in terms of subsidy for a critical industry. I tried finding the awards for Tesla but the articles lump in government contracts and report the figure to be in tens of billions. I am sure they have received a comparable amount of funding. BYD has just been able to make better use of it I suppose.

[deleted]

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#874

Post by motorest »

mikrotikker wrote: post #843
herbst wrote: post #840

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within only a few months I see more Chinese Electric cars than Tesla (or us cars generally) on swiss streets. Depending on what you are looking for they are WAY cheaper than comparable cars.

No way I'd trust them. When you crash them or they have a battery fault, the doors lock you inside before the battery catches fire. Many videos of this happening inside China with one recent event in the West.

> No way I'd trust them. When you crash them or they have a battery fault, the doors lock you inside before the battery catches fire.

This matches reports from Tesla users. The cybertruck is specially prone to this sort of design problems.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#875

Post by le-mark »

theshrike79 wrote: post #828

And the worst thing is that Elon could've been a living legend by building/funding colleges and schools focused on the tech his companies need, software development, robotics etc. Or even given out million dollar scholarships for the very top students. And he still would've been worth over 250 billion easily. Instead he chose to buy the president and start "optimising" the government with AI.

Elon has proven to truly be the dumbest smart guy ever. He alienated Tesla’s core customers; tree hugging liberals, and anyone who cares about sustainability. The GOP nor their voters care and never will. I called this Tesla stock crash months ago; did not act on it though.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#876

Post by pm3003 »

masklinn wrote: post #489
mmooss wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My favorite thing to come out of CAFE regulations was the Aston Martin Cygnet. It was just a re-badged Toyota iQ whose sole purpose was to raise the average fuel economy within their fleet. Maybe that's a good thing. It compelled Aston Martin to provide their customers with a fuel-efficient option.

Nobody looking for a fuel efficient car would look at Aston, and nobody looking at Aston would go for a fuel efficient car. Which was borne by its sales: sold for nearly 3 times the price you'd have paid Toyota for an iQ, it sold all of 600 units in two years before being cancelled, Aston's second shortest production run. The shortest was the Virage which sold more than 1000 units in a year.

At some point they offered a free Cygnet if you bought one of their other models.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#877

Post by motorest »

cpursley wrote: post #846
phonon wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They definitely tried... $7.5 Billion worth. It's on pause now :-( https://www.govtech.com/transportation/federal-funding-for-e...

[flagged]

> Yeah, because it was ineffective and the people running it, like most federal bureaucracy - extremely incompetent (to mind bending shocking levels).

I think this sort of statement should be revised. From an outsider's point of view, there is a political current within the US that pushes with a fundamentalist fervor the idea that state institutions cannot do any good or anything right. This becomes a self fulfilling prophecy when they elect candidates that push these ideals, which have a vested interest in sabotaging, derailing, and shutting down projects.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#878

Post by wojciii »

mattlondon wrote: post #396
wojciii wrote: post #391

> "and the only way to listen to music while driving is if you bring along your phone and a Bluetooth speaker" Why not make a physical connection (power/network) and define a form factor for entertainment system with or without screen and speakers and let other companies design something to fit the space available. I don't understand why no one does this instead of selling cars full of crappy software that can't be u…

That's what cars always used to have. Made them easily stealable though.

This can be fixed by locking the device to a specific car .. by the user.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#879

Post by zitsarethecure »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #744
cco wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll do you one better, car headlights should never be off while the motor is running. Just like motorcycles since the 70s (maybe 80s?). No switch at all, ignition on, headlights on, period.

Niche counter example: Parents who sit in their idling cars for (fucking) ages while their cars are facing the tennis courts thus blinding the player on the other side of the court for however long it takes them to either turn their car off, drive off, or someone to tell them turn their fucking headlights off.

Along similar lines would be those people who constantly start up their cars in campgrounds after hours for whatever reason.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#880

Post by torginus »

gaws wrote: post #323
dogline wrote: post #11

It's a $20k, street-legal, EV modding platform. Sounds like you can mount your own infotainment system. Just an electric motor, battery, and chassis, and the rest is up to you. Isn't this what we've been asking for?

> It's a $20k, street-legal, EV modding platform. And it'll always be sold out.

This is an $27k car, with $7.5k rebate, so much for the unfairly competing Chinese. The MG4 is £22500 in the UK before tax, which is about $30k in USD, and that's a full-featured 5 door car, with double the range.

I do applaud the philosphy of cheap and barebones, and easily moddable, but my two cents is that trim is not the thing that's making cars expensive to make.

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