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How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

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Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#871
post #129
post #83

> But if we bump the cost of freight, insurance, and customs from $5 to, say, $28, then they wholesale the shoes to Footlocker for about $75. And if Footlocker purchases Nike shoes for $75, then they retail them for $150. Everyone needs to fixed percentages to avoid losses. I don't understand this paragraph. If Footlocker was okay with $50 profit/shoe, why do they need to claim $75 profit/shoe in their costs per shoe…

Because it's mostly wrong. Luxury goods like Nike's, iPhones, et.al. are priced to maximize revenue. If those started growing on trees for free it wouldn't appreciably change the price. They'd just bank the extra as profit.

There's cost based pricing and there's price based costing.

Food and clothing, anything with complex supply chains tend to be cost based pricing. As a rule of thumb, it's x3, maybe x4 for a well-branded item like Nike or Calvin Klein. Most innovations are on supply chain. E-commerce was such a big thing because it could cut out one middle man and lead to 30% price cuts or profit margins, and yet all these online shops ended up appearing in malls anyway.

Software is price based costing because there's no fancy supply chain. iPhones may be somewhere in the middle, hardware tends to have the worst of both worlds - high fixed costs and lots of middle men.

A McDonald's may have franchises and may own some restaurants internally, but they don't want to lose money, so they may base it on the lower profit margins - it makes no sense for a burger in one spot to be $4 and a burger in the franchise to be $5; both need to be $5.

Generally luxury brand do use more expensive parts, whether or not those parts add to the quality. And they do have higher profit margins. But the retailers, distributors, etc still take a 30% cut or so. And in the end, Louis Vuitton is still probably making lower margins than Plants vs Zombies.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back to coal mines.

it really seems like there's a push to de-skill Americans. like Bessent's remark that the laid-off civil servants could become factory workers as we bring back domestic manufacturing, and the recent corporate push towards vibe coding and integrating AI everywhere, and the purge of seasonal and unskilled migrant workers while keeping the H1B program. it almost seems like we're trying to clear immigrants out of the chi…

I've been hearing internet rumours of theories that for a lot of people all of this has something to do with fragile masculinity, a desire for dominance, sexual insecurity, something like that. I don't really understand it fully, but it's something like they want to bring back old sexual hierachies so they can be at the top of them. Machoism. They want to bring the manly jobs back and give them to white people. The reason they hate black people is they have some insecurity about being sexually out-competed by black men. The reason they hate gay and trans people is that nontraditional sexuality devalues the whole traditional sexual hierarchy. The reason they want to crash the economy so there won't be as many jobs available and women will have to depend on men for money which will make it easier for them to get women - some of them have actually said this out loud! And so on.

It's just one of many possible theories, but it's consistent with itself and the evidence...

Not sure where exactly I've seen the idea. It might have been: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn6b8GRAXgo or its source material: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID8Xq3chNi4

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#873
post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday your vice president referred to the Chinese as "peasants".

No, he said “"We borrow money from Chinese peasants to buy the things those Chinese peasants make” He did not refer to all Chinese as peasants. China would like you think that though.

So then the actual bona fide peasants are the ones owning the T-bills? I thought holding USD reserves was national policy, with strict currency controls and whatnot. So my basic reading of that quote puts it closer to a dog whistle blanket characterization, and your promotion of the equivocation is quite disingenuous.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#874
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on Earth would taxpayers give their hard earned money to other people to work on their "projects of interest"? Scarcity is very real, I'm not sure why you would feel otherwise. Fortunately, we have largely eliminated scarcity of the necessities of life due to economic policies that are as far from your suggestions as possible, but that doesn't mean that they are produced at no cost or that scarcity in general doe…

Maybe it is more meaningful for people to be creative than it is to staff yet another sheetz on the side of the road because truckers tend to piss and need smokes at that intersection. But who knows maybe you are right and it is better we take on jobs at a local gas station if we have such a wonderful opportunity like that in front of us. So much innovation is produced as we know from people who have the opportunity…

I hate to break it to you, but people working as gas station cashiers as adults aren't going to produce much innovation no matter what. They work those jobs because they need resources to survive and they can't make more money elsewhere.

Like I said, the people you're talking about just had a significant period of time where they were effectively paid to stay home and had ample time to pursue their personal interests, yet no meaningful innovation was produced by that cohort that I'm aware of. What am I missing?

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#875
post #42

Americans need to get over their view of “Asia” as being about making shoes. When I was working in engineering in the early aughts, we mocked the Chinese as being able only to copy American technology. Today, China is competitive with or ahead of America in key technology areas, including nuclear power, AI, EVs, and batteries. We need to anticipate a future where China is equal to America on a per capita basis, but f…

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Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#876
post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday your vice president referred to the Chinese as "peasants".

No, he said “"We borrow money from Chinese peasants to buy the things those Chinese peasants make” He did not refer to all Chinese as peasants. China would like you think that though.

It was an unnecessary slight by the vice president of the United States. Vance is a provocateur, and I'm not sure he's an intelligent one.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article seems confused, e.g.: > If government spending isn’t going to pay government workers, it must be going to pay people who work in the private sector — nonprofits, for-profit contractors, consultants, and so on. In other words, state capacity is being outsourced. The money is going to social security payments . Social security went from Meanwhile there is another reason why the number of government workers…

> Meanwhile there is another reason why the number of government workers has gone down: Uh...excluding the very recent cuts this year under Trump; the number of civilians in the US Federal work force has gone up fairly steadily. [0] We had 23.592 million civilian employees in Jan 2025. 21.779M in Jan 2021, after being largely stagnant overall the previous 10 years. That's a net change in excess of 1.8M employees unde…

And beside government institutions there are lots of institutions at state and city level.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#878

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we're not talking about career success, we were talking about comparisons of nation states. Having an IQ advantage there might prove marginally more helpful, but it's not really that important. I'd argue physical size and strength of a people are even more important than IQ when we're looking at across the board averages. Plus you have things like, idk, access to raw materials, geographic advantages, cultural ad…

China has a millenia-long history of organizing a very large amount of people fairly well. They basically invented bureaucracy. Not everything is better in China of course, but don't forget about that aspect.

Yep, the Chinese basically invented the State and bureaucracy as we know it. In fact it was so good (despite its faults) that when China was invaded by outside forces and occupied, those forces themselves adopted the Chinese state to administer their new holdings.

I'm not being critical of China here though, I'm just being critical of the original discussion point. Quantity has a quality of its own, but it has trade-offs.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#879

The thread was kind of hand wavy over the "$24* discount" for Footlocker? From the linked article... >Footlocker’s purchase price (read footnote #3) for every sale of $100 shows up as $66 in their financial reports, and not $50. In plain terms, Footlocker sells its merchandise for a 24% discount on the average. So $100 was never the sale price, just some made up, hoped for number that only appears on the shoe box, an…

> BTW, both Footlocker and Dick's have gross margins ~30% but Dick's has an operating margin around 12% while FL is 1-2%. Clearly FL is an inferior retailer. ELI5: What is the difference between gross margin and operating margin? Is operating margin the same as profit margin?

Maybe easiest to explain from a software perspective.

So if you build a SaaS app, your company will incur a number of costs. You need to pay AWS for hosting, your support team, your sales team, your annual team retreat to Mexico, etc.

When you start measuring your profitability you then will separately measure the profitability of your product vs. your business.

The profitability of the product is your gross margin - essentially your revenue minus your cost of goods sold (COGS). Not all of your business expenses fall into here - only the costs that directly relate to supporting the product.

So… - Your annual team retreat won’t hit your gross margin: this cost isn’t essential to supporting the product - Your AWS costs will hit your gross margin (if you turned off AWS tomorrow, your product stops working) - Your Slack bill does not hit gross margin - Your product & engineering team normally doesn’t hit gross margin, but DevOps does (because DevOps is seen as essential to supporting the product while R&D is not)

Now in reality it does get a bit more messy. Businesses might allocate a % of engineering costs to GM to account for essential maintenance and bugfixes.

So the way to look at it is: what costs are essential to the continued delivery of the product and what are nice-to-have?

And then operating margin essentially considers all of the non capital costs. It’s a more comprehensive view of all the businesses revenue and costs.

For a smaller business it’s very normal for operating margin to be razor thin or even negative. Because just one or two engineers could cost more than your entire revenue.

But this entire concept is why software companies have historically been able to be unprofitable for so long. A business that’s losing a ton of money every month might only be losing that money because it’s investing very heavily in R&D. Or maybe it just moved into a new

As you scale the relative impact of a lot of those costs will go down significantly - e.g. your engineering team cost will stop being 300% of your revenue and will start being 20% (you don’t hire engineers linearly with growth).

So the theory is that if you can find a software that has: - a big market - great gross margin

Then with just some upfront cash investment you can provide the business enough runway to grow the revenue to the point where the impact of some of these expenses becomes very small. At a certain scale, a product with 50%+ gross margin will be producing so much cash that it can pay for the rest of your operational expenses without further investment.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#880
post #42

Americans need to get over their view of “Asia” as being about making shoes. When I was working in engineering in the early aughts, we mocked the Chinese as being able only to copy American technology. Today, China is competitive with or ahead of America in key technology areas, including nuclear power, AI, EVs, and batteries. We need to anticipate a future where China is equal to America on a per capita basis, but f…

I'll never forget having to SSH into Bejing servers because nobody on that side could fix a problem... (working at a Chinese heavy company for a bit)...

I walked away realizing they are still copying the tech (IP theft, etc), but don't understand it nearly as well. The main thing that changed was the time-gaps, and by bypassing safety and other regs/norms, they just get to market first, but with a subpar product, usually with major issues.

I'm not nearly as afraid of this version of the future having experienced that, but of course, that was from a limited perspective.

That said, the sheer amount of $ being pumped into infrastructure of all types in China is a sight to behold, and also woke me up to how much our own government and big business entrenchment is suppressing American ingenuity.

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