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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#871

Post by mrguyorama »

ta8645 wrote: post #342
Conscat wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "free-speech does not mean freedom from consequences" This is a actually a slogan in support of free speech. Of course people are allowed to say transphobic things online or downtown, but that would surely make some of their coworkers uncomfortable and that's pretty disqualifying from most employment. You're allowed to say things, but colleagues are allowed to respond in kind within the law.

Fair enough, and I agree to an extent. But a lot of the complaints leveled at Trump amount to the same thing. For example, visa holders are free to say whatever they want, but may have to return to their country of origin, etc.

No, because "revoking your visa" is a thing the GOVERNMENT does to someone. Revoking someone's Visa for their speech is explicitly what the 1st is about!

Whereas, your PRIVATE employer deciding they don't want to pay you money because you are an asshole (whether that's because you hate LGBTQ people, or aggressively defend their rights with your speech) is THEIR first amendment rights.

The 1st is about: Freedom of speech, press, religion, and association. Limiting a private company's ability to fire you for your speech is against their 1st amendment rights! Indeed, several attempts to build a civil rights framework in the US failed judicial review for this exact reason, and the one we eventually got had to make great efforts to justify that it's limited "protected class" framework was acceptable. I predict it gets overturned.

The inverse is also true: The government CAN limit the speech of people in their government jobs. Teachers can legally be prevented from saying things as teachers, without it being an infringement on their speech rights.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#872

Post by slowhadoken »

verteu wrote: post #836
slowhadoken wrote: post #97

I can’t remember anyone respecting mainstream US news for the last 30+ years. Aren’t most news agencies, directly or indirectly, owned by BlackRock, State Street, or the Vanguard Group? That’s a real question.

Asset managers do not control the news. Jack Bogle died with a net worth of $80mm. He was not even powerful enough to afford a top-tier penthouse in Manhattan, let alone control the media.

BlackRock, State Street, and Vanguard Group each respectably manage trillions of dollars in asset, private equity, and debt. They're independent firms but each own substantial shares in one another. Together these 3 firms are major shareholders in FAANG (big US tech) and mainstream US news agencies. BlackRock alone has disclosed through their latest SEC filings that it holds stakes in 5,387 companies globally. https://fintel.io/i/blackrock https://ecell.iitm.ac.in/blog/post/above-the-fold-a-company-...

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#873

Post by johnnyanmac »

unethical_ban wrote: post #753
zmgsabst wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. This is what happens when “rule of law” is subverted on the generational scale — eg, by enabling illicit mass migration opposed by the majority of the people. They eventually feel that appeals to “rule of law” are merely emotional manipulation used against them and stop caring in pursuit of a solution to what they perceive as a problem. What did people expect to happen?

Do people really think imperfect enforcement of immigration law is an excuse to willfully discard the right to trial or constraints on presidential power?

The people that simply want an excuse to be racist do. That's a part of the country that people like trump enable. Happened in 2017 and is happening again.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#874

Post by johnnyanmac »

tremon wrote: post #820
wrs wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we’re experiencing is a group exploiting the biggest vulnerability in the American system, one that was known to the founding fathers. If you can get enough people to vote for you and your friends, then all of the checks and balances will eventually fail against you, because in the end they’re all dependent on the populace not voting for people who corrupt the system. It probably wouldn’t have seemed plausible t…

Not entirely true, they did consider that possibility, and their solution was the electoral college: the only reason for its existence is as a safeguard against installing a populist president that would corrupt the system.

If anything, it enabled it through acts like gerrymandering. That's how Trump won the first term in the 2nd or 3rd time in 250 years the electoral college defied the popular vote.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#875

Post by johnnyanmac »

coolhand2120 wrote: post #621
wrs wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we’re experiencing is a group exploiting the biggest vulnerability in the American system, one that was known to the founding fathers. If you can get enough people to vote for you and your friends, then all of the checks and balances will eventually fail against you, because in the end they’re all dependent on the populace not voting for people who corrupt the system. It probably wouldn’t have seemed plausible t…

Is your argument that when a political party hold all major branches of government that it is implicitly corrupt? Or are you arguing that one side is corrupt and the other is not? Is there a theoretical situation where a single party gaining control is simply the will of the voters? That appears to be a potential valid outcome.

It's one big component of being corrrupt, yes.

>Is there a theoretical situation where a single party gaining control is simply the will of the voters?

Sure. But not with the current electoral college and its exploits, as well as literal election bribery that is publicly admitted to.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#876

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

Buttons840 wrote: post #551
refusingsalt wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Venezuela, known for telling the truth

There's no evidence that Venezuela is lying in this case, because there is no evidence. Due process is important for protecting the innocent, but due process is also important because it documents the crimes of the guilty.

Exactly. I'm willing to believe some of these people were indeed "bad dudes", but literally 0 evidence was provided one way or the other. And these people weren't just deported back to their home countries - they were imprisoned in demonstrably brutal fashion.

Yeah, yeah, Godwin's Law and all that, but the similarities with mid-20th century fascism are undeniable here. The administration specifically started with targeting a small, well-defined minority (that is, people in the US illegally, or at least purported to be here illegally), and then extended to valid visa holders (what's the point of being on legal visa if it can be revoked at any moment with no judicial review and then you can be imprisoned for weeks/months) and now legal permanent residents. It's just classic creeping fascism.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#877

Post by Conscat »

anal_reactor wrote: post #860
Conscat wrote: post #849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not certain what MAGA-phobic could mean etymologically, since a "phobia" is an irrational fear of something, such as an irrational fear of people transitioning sex. Opposition to MAGA is typically rooted in the very rational and well-evidenced fear that one might be persecuted for their religious affiliation or sexuality, among other things.

> Opposition to MAGA is typically rooted in the very rational and well-evidenced fear Opposition to LGBT is typically rooted in the very rational and well-evidenced fear...

Please refrain from trolling on Hacker News.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#878

Post by verteu »

slowhadoken wrote: post #872
verteu wrote: post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asset managers do not control the news. Jack Bogle died with a net worth of $80mm. He was not even powerful enough to afford a top-tier penthouse in Manhattan, let alone control the media.

BlackRock, State Street, and Vanguard Group each respectably manage trillions of dollars in asset, private equity, and debt. They're independent firms but each own substantial shares in one another. Together these 3 firms are major shareholders in FAANG (big US tech) and mainstream US news agencies. BlackRock alone has disclosed through their latest SEC filings that it holds stakes in 5,387 companies globally. https:…

If managing clients' shares gives them such colossal power, how come the founder of Vanguard was worth less than the founder of In-N-Out Burger?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#879

Post by insane_dreamer »

Of all the terrible attacks on the 1A, I find this one the most disturbing as it amounts to nothing less than mafia-style extortion:

> The POTUS recently issued several executive orders railing against specific law firms with attorneys who worked legal cases against him. On Friday, the president announced that the law firm of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meager & Flom had agreed to provide $100 million in pro bono work on issues that he supports.

> Trump issued another order naming the firm Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison, which ultimately agreed to pledge $40 million in pro bono legal services to the president’s causes.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#880

Post by insane_dreamer »

refusingsalt wrote: post #498
wahnfrieden wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Venezuela claims zero were members fwiw > Venezuela's Interior Minister Diosdado Cabello said on Friday that none of the hundreds of Venezuelans deported by the U.S. to a Salvadoran prison is a member of Venezuela's Tren de Aragua criminal gang, the reason Washington gave for expelling them. > "I believe with absolute responsibility that not a single one appears on the organizational chart of the now-extinct Tren de…

Venezuela, known for telling the truth

vs Trump, known for telling the truth?
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