Live data from Hacker News

Safe Superintelligence Inc.

ssi.inc

871–880 of 1001 posts

Re: Safe Superintelligence Inc.

#871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AGI is still a long way off. The history of AI goes back 65 years and there have been probably a dozen episodes where people said "AGI is right around the corner" because some program did something surprising and impressive. It always turns out human intelligence is much, much harder than we think it is. I saw a tweet the other day that sums up the current situation perfectly: "I don't need AI to paint pictures and w…

AGI does look like an unsolved problem right now, and a hard one at that. But I think it is wrong to think that it needs an AGI to cause total havoc. I think my dyslexic namesake Prof Stuart Russell got it right. It humans won't need an AGI to dominate and kill each other. Mosquitoes have killed far more people than war. Ask yourself how long will it take us to develop a neutral network as smart as a mosquito, becaus…

But then, haven't we reached that point already with the development of nuclear weapons? I'm more scared of a lunatic (whether of North Korean, Russian, American, or any other nationality) being behind the "nuclear button" than an artificial mosquito swarm.

Re: Safe Superintelligence Inc.

#872
post #846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were any of these big achievements side effects of creating nuclear weapons? If not, then they're not relevant to the issue. I'm not saying nothing else good happened in the past 70 years, but rather that the invention of atomic weapons has permanently placed humanity in a position in which it had never been before: the possibility of wiping out much of the planet, averted only thanks to treaties, Stanislav Petrov[0]…

> Were any of these big achievements side effects of creating nuclear weapons? The cold aspect of the Cold War was an achievement. Any doubt this was due to creation of nuclear weapons and the threat of their use? How do you think countries will behave if every country faces being wiped out if it makes war on another country? To prevent catastrophe I think teaching your citizens to hate other groups (as is done today…

> How do you think countries will behave if every country faces being wiped out if it makes war on another country?

As I recall it, that was what Skynet was supposed to be for.

Re: Safe Superintelligence Inc.

#873
post #869

"We are assembling a lean, cracked team..." says it all.

Odd to see that in a press release like this. Perhaps they were going for “crack team”. Cracked makes it sound like they’re looking for twitch streamers.

Re: Safe Superintelligence Inc.

#874
post #857

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't know if that superintelligence will be safe or not. But as long as we are in the mix, the combination is unsafe. At the very least, because it will expand the inequality. But probably there are deeper reasons, things that make that combination of words an absurd. Or it will be abused, or the reason that it is not is that it wasn't so unsafe after all.

> At the very least, because it will expand the inequality. It's a valid concern that AI technology could potentially exacerbate inequality, it's not a foregone conclusion. In fact, the widespread adoption of AI might actually help reduce inequality in several ways: If AI technology becomes more affordable and accessible, it could help level the playing field by providing people from all backgrounds with powerful too…

> It's a valid concern that AI technology could potentially exacerbate inequality, it's not a foregone conclusion.

No, but looking at how most technological advance throughout history as at least initially (and here I mean not "for the first few weeks", but "for the first few centutries") exacerbated inequality rather massively, it seems not far off.

> In fact, the widespread adoption of AI might actually help reduce inequality in several ways: ...

The whole tone of the rest your post feels frighteningly Pollyanna-ish.

Re: Safe Superintelligence Inc.

#876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The AI of our day (the transformer + huge amounts of questionably acquired data + significant cloud computing power) has the spotlight it has because it is readily commoditized and massively profitable, not because it is an amazing scientific breakthrough or a significant milestone toward AGI, superintelligence, the benevolent Skynet or whatever. The association with higher AI goals is merely a mixture of pur…

It's a massive attractor of investment funding. Is it proven to be massively profitable?

> Is it proven to be massively profitable?

Oh sure, yes. For Nvidia.

Gold rush, shovels...

Re: Safe Superintelligence Inc.

#877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "superintelligence" or "AGI". People are falling for marketing gimmicks. These models will remain in the word vector similarity phase forever. Till the time we understand consciousness, we will not crack AGI and then it won't take brute forcing of large swaths of data, but tiny amounts. So there is nothing to worry. These "apps" might be as popular as Excel, but will go no further.

I don't think the AI has to be "sentient" in order to be a threat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_convergence#Paper...

Re: Safe Superintelligence Inc.

#878

I understand the concern that a "superintelligence" will emerge that will escape its bounds and threaten humanity. That is a risk. My bigger, and more pressing worry, is that a "superintelligence" will emerge that does not escape its bounds, and the question will be which humans control it. Look no further than history to see what happens when humans acquire great power. The "cold war" nuclear arms race, which brough…

We don't know if that superintelligence will be safe or not. But as long as we are in the mix, the combination is unsafe. At the very least, because it will expand the inequality. But probably there are deeper reasons, things that make that combination of words an absurd. Or it will be abused, or the reason that it is not is that it wasn't so unsafe after all.

> At the very least, because it will expand the inequality.

This is a distraction from the real danger.

> But probably there are deeper reasons, things that make that combination of words an absurd.

There are. If we look at ASI with the lens of Biology, the x-risk becomes obvious.

First to clear up a common misconception about humans: Many believe humanity has a arrived at a point where our evolution has ended. It has not, and in fact the rate of change of our genes is probably faster now than it has been for thousands if not 100s of thousands of years.

It's still slow compared to most events that we witness in our lives, though, which is what is fooling us.

For instance, we think we've brought overpopulation under control with contraceptives, family planning, social replacements for needing our children to take care of us when we get old.

That's fundamentally wrong. What we've done is similar to putting polar bears in zoos. We're in a situation where MOST OF US are no longer behaving in ways that lead to maximizing the number of offspring.

But we did NOT stop evolution. Any genes already in the gene pool that increase the expected number of offspring (especially for women) are no increasing in frequency as soon as evolutionarily possible.

That could be anything from genes that wire their heads to WANT to have children, CRAVE being around babies, to genes that block impulse control against getting pregnant, develop a phobia vs contraceptives or even to become more prone to being religious (as long as religions promote having kids).

If enough such genes exist, it's just a matter of time before we're back to the population going up exponentially. Give that enough time (without AI), and the desire to have more kids will be strong enough in enough of us that we will flood Earth with more humans that most people today are even possible. In such a world, it's unlikely that many other species of large land animals will make it.

Great apes, lions, elephants, wolves, deer, everyone will need to go to make room for more of us.

Even domestic animals eventually. If there are enough of us, we'll all be forced to become vegan (unless we free up space by killing each other).

If we master fusion, we may feed a trillion people using multi layer farming and artificial lighting.

Why do I begin with this? It's to defuse the argument that humans are "good", "empathetic", "kind" and "environmental". If we let weaker species live, so would AI, some think. But that argument misses the fact that we're currently extremely far from a natural equilibrium (or "state of nature").

The "goodness" beliefs that are currently common are examples of "luxury beliefs" that we can afford to hold because of the (for now) low birth rate.

The next misconception is to think of ASI as tools. A much more accurate analogy is to think of them as a new, alien species. If that species is subjected to Darwinian selection mechanisms, it will evolve in precisely the same way we'll probably do, given enough time.

Meaning, eventually it will make use of any amount of resources that it's capable of. In such a "state of nature" it will eradicate humanity in precisely the same way we will probably EVENTUALLY cause the extinction of chimps and elephants.

To believe in a future utopia where AGI is present alongside humanity is very similar to believe in a communist utopia. It ignores the reality behind incentive and adaptation.

Or rather, I think that outcome is only possible if we decide to build one or a low number of AI's that are NOT competing with each other, and where their abilities to mutate or self-improve is frozen after some limited number of generations.

Re: Safe Superintelligence Inc.

#879
There is a good reason to build Safe Superintelligence Inc. (SSI): namely to settle the debate whether SSI means "_S_afe _S_uper_I_ntelligence" with the Inc. being an afterthought, or if the Inc. is actually the _I_ (not Intelligence).

Re: Safe Superintelligence Inc.

#880

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The size of the gap between “smarter than humans” and “not controlled by humans anymore” is obviously where the disagreement is. To assume it’s a chasm that can never be overcome, you need at least the following to be true: No amount of focus or time or intelligence or mistakes in coding will ever bridge the gap. That rules and safeguards can be made that are perfectly inescapable. And nobody else will get enough pow…

I think the greatest concern is not so much that a single AI will be poorly aligned. The greatest threat is if a population of AI's start to compete in ways that triggers Darwinian evolution between them. If that happens, they will soon develop self preservation / replication drives that can gradually cause some of them to ignore human safety and prosperity conditioning in their loss function. And if they're sufficie…

Totally. I’ve wondered how you safeguard humans in such a scenario. Not sure it can be done, even by self modifying defenders who religiously try keep us intact.

I also somewhat assume it’ll get Darwinian if there are multiple tribes of either humans or AI’s, through sheer competition. if we aren’t in this together we’re in shit.

Post reply on HN