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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#871

Post by repelsteeltje »

kyriakos wrote: post #513
repelsteeltje wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I heard, Microsoft is doing great and still in one piece.

After changing course cause of legal troubles they caused by believing they are above the law

M$ received a modest also with a silk glove. It somewhat curbed what Balmer could do, but never changed his intention.

That is to say: I'm hoping the regulators will come down way harder on Apple (and Amazon, Google et al) this time. Apple leadership will need serious intervention to understand that the way they currently operate isn't in their own interest long term.

In a sense, I believe regulators better understand the significance of developers, customers, publishers, content owners and advertisers in Apples ecosystem than Apple does.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#872

Post by omnimus »

simondotau wrote: post #864
Zambyte wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I called them "general purpose computers that are marketed as special purpose computers".

Are you saying that the laws governing digital markets should vary based on a manufacturer's current marketing strategy? What if they market it one way this month and a different way next month? I wonder, would a Chromebook be considered a general purpose computer for the purposes of this argument? Should the rules change for the Xbox if Microsoft ever mentions that the Xbox is a great platform for browsing the web o…

Yes the rules should change. Otherwise it will increasingly go other way and what used to be general use devices will be turned into limited use computers that users wont own.

Apple has been heading in this direction with iOS, iPadOs and lately with MacOs too. I think their main reason though is to be able to force users to upgrade/trash otherwise perfectly fine devices using software. Computers are fast enough for most users already but then there is no reason to upgrade.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#873

Post by izacus »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #188
izacus wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing about some random contracts I can see in DMA. DMA however does say that the gatekeeper (Apple) isn't allow to block or retaliate against competitors. Or users for that matter.

> nothing about some random contracts I can see in DMA There are laws other than the DMA? (Anticipatory breach is incorporated into EU law through the UN CISG [1].) [1] https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/16247_2020_13

And how exactly does that then allow breach of DMA provisions?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#874

Post by microtonal »

throwaway-blaze wrote: post #715
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Epic also intentionally broke agreements with Apple before. This is funny to point out since they did it specifically to sue over it (you pretty much can't other wise). So Apple has their draconian 30% cut or there's literally no other way to have an application run on iOS policy, you can't challenge it without breaking it so you can sue, and because you broke it to sue you are now permanently barred from every maki…

It's not 49% of the phone market in the EU. More like 36%, and in some markets like Italy and Spain, far far smaller.

It doesn’t matter. A company does not have to be a monopoly to be a gatekeeper under the DMA. The DMA defines gatekeeper (among other things) in terms of the number of users in the EU and revenue in the EEA. According to those definitions Apple is a gatekeeper and the DMA applies to them, monopoly or not.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#875

Post by microtonal »

threeseed wrote: post #468
Jensson wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DMA, Apple can't just retaliate for Epic complaining about them, this doesn't mean that Apple is forced to deal with everyone they are just banned from retaliating for certain things: > 6. The gatekeeper shall not directly or indirectly prevent or restrict business users or end users from raising any issue of non-compliance with the relevant Union or national law by the gatekeeper with any relevant public authority,…

You should read the US ruling [1]. This is not about Epic criticising Apple. This is because Epic did things like pushing a hidden IAP system inside Fortnite to evade review and then at a later point switching it on. This sort of thing has been forbidden since the early days of the App Store. It is a fundamental part of the Apple-Developer contract that you allow reviewers access to all functionality. [1] https://law…

You keep repeating this, but I don’t see how it is relevant. Apple’s rules are not relevant anymore under the DMA. Under the DMA, companies are allowed to set up alternative app stores period. It doesn’t matter if they violate Apple’s App Store rules prior. The point of the DMA is exactly that you can make your own App Store that doesn’t have to comply with Apple’s rules.

I can understand that Apple wants to safeguard their platform by requiring notarization, etc. But they are playing with fire here. One outcome of misbehaving could be that the EC will require full sideloading (Android-style), so that Apple cannot sabotage third party stores anymore, like they are doing now.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#876

Post by aurareturn »

jarsin wrote: post #666

Haven't seen much discussion about Unreal Engine here. Epic stated in court filings that it would consider Unreal a failed business if it lost the ability to maintain unreal for ios. Many 3d enterprise apps need to run on ipads. This is hughe blow to unreal.

They f'ed around and found out.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#877

Post by justin66 »

turboturbo wrote: post #807

Gruber has a good take on this: [1] > That Tim Sweeney tweet cited as an example doesn’t seem out of line to me. [...] Apple ought to stick to Epic’s deliberate breaking of the App Store rules with Fortnite back in 2020. It’s not even in dispute that they flagrantly broke the rules then. If Apple wants to make that a “lifetime” ban, they should just say so. > Citing recent tweets, like Sweeney’s, that are simply crit…

[flagged]

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#878

Post by dpkonofa »

dantheman wrote: post #867
wkat4242 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, its really weird to appeal to the noble intentions of a corporation. They're both just engaged in business. This is what's wrong with the current overly capitalist system. Companies are totally allowed to have no conscience, and externalise whatever they please to consumers and the environment. And you could even argue they are 'forced' to do so by due diligence legislation. If we let this continue there will…

Capitalism is a system of private property and voluntary exchange. There's tons of accountability - people can stop buying and interacting with these companies.

This isn't always the case. Some of these companies own and run the only methods of doing certain things. There are some places, for example, where you can't use cash to pay for things. That means that, in those places, you cannot stop buying and interacting with Visa and Mastercard, for example.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#879

Post by dpkonofa »

RespectYourself wrote: post #778
lamontcg wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, its really weird to appeal to the noble intentions of a corporation. They're both just engaged in business. I can believe that Apple is acting incredibly badly in this case without needing to fluff up Epic Games at all. Apple and Samsung could sue each other and do business with each other because the stakes were lower and they were more codependent.

Epic isn't squeaky-clean, but Apple is making dangerous and dumb decisions in this whole debate. Banning third-party payments was one thing, but then Apple banned publishers from TELLING people about the ability to pay through a Web site. That is not just unnecessary from a business standpoint (since the vast majority of people opt for the most convenient thing); but it's so offensive that it invites crackdowns, impl…

>but it's so offensive that it invites crackdowns, implemented by ignorant politicians and legislative bodies... hurting Apple's bottom line.

Apple is a billion (nay trillion) dollar company with the best lawyers and accountants in the world. They clearly believe that the added uncertainty and negative perception that could be attached to their brand by allowing systems that can increase fraud and malfeasance is more harmful to their bottom line than maintaining their walled garden with all the accompanying "crackdowns".

I, for one, agree with them. I would much rather keep the existing system for both myself and my extended family members and people who rely on me as their tech person than allow these third-party vultures to further complicate and enshittify the system. In the current case, if my parents bought something on their phone, I know exactly where to go to see the purchase and can easily help them refund it or, if it's a subscription, cancel it. Corporations misleading people into using external payment systems and channels in order to make a quicker buck (and keep more of that buck) is easily a worse experience for everyone involved except the vultures.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#880

Post by [deleted] »

dantheman wrote: post #867
wkat4242 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, its really weird to appeal to the noble intentions of a corporation. They're both just engaged in business. This is what's wrong with the current overly capitalist system. Companies are totally allowed to have no conscience, and externalise whatever they please to consumers and the environment. And you could even argue they are 'forced' to do so by due diligence legislation. If we let this continue there will…

Capitalism is a system of private property and voluntary exchange. There's tons of accountability - people can stop buying and interacting with these companies.

[deleted]
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