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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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That is a wild take on the comment you are responding to. Are you sure you are responding to the right comment?

This is why the conversation is nearly impossible, even on hn. It's hard to find enough people who agree on which facts are objectively true in order to have the discussion.

Things end up stuck in endless loops of the loudest voices claiming that either "any criticism at all of Israel, no matter what it does, is antisemitic" or "no criticism of Israel is ever antisemitic unless it explicitly and directly refers to Judaism."

Ironically, I've observed many of the former have trouble understanding that racism can exist without using a racial slur, while many of the latter can easily write a 1000 word essay about dog whistles and implicit bias against groups other than Jews.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#872
post #32

For context, a total of 69 journalists were killed in WWII, 63 in the Vietnam war both of which lasted several years. As of today March 6th 2024, the Gaza invasion has left 86 journalists dead in less than 4 months. That is an amazingly high percentage for the expected mean in a conflict. Sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/israel... https://www.icij.org/inside-icij/2024/02/over-75-of-all-j…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39619763.

This is not a moderation scolding—I'm just trying to prune the top-heaviest subthreads.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny thing is, since this all kicked off I've seen several photos and videos clearly showing Israeli soldiers using civilians, including children, as human shields. I haven't seen any evidence of Hamas doing anything like this; it seems Hamas are mostly accused of this by Israel, simply because Hamas exists in a dense, urban environment.

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That's enough. We've banned this account.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#874

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Genozid and ethinic cleansing are not an act of self defence. That people fail to see that is troublesome. And no, I won't go back to King David and the Romans. The current conflict between Palestinians and Israel can be traced back to right after WW2. That's were the interesting events start. Going back further is not helpful.

That's your choice, but it's just an arbitrary point in time, by which Arabs have airway been slaughtering Jews for generations. You could have just as well choose last week as a starting point.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#875

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what want to say, but here some dates, courtesy of wiki: - Hamas won 42.5% in the elections in 2006, no elections took place since - Hamas support was not strong, based in the few pols done, it increased after Israels attack And the last bit what is so not surprising. Edit: If you are interested in how we ended up with this cluster fuck, wikipedia is good place. Start way back so, in 50s, to get the necessar…

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> Calling what happened in 2006 “an election” is not a good idea.

From Wikipedia:

> An 84-delegate international observer delegation monitored the elections. It judged the elections to have been peaceful and well-administered.[33] Twenty-seven members of the European parliament were included. Edward McMillan-Scott, the British Conservative head of the European Parliament's monitoring team described the polls as "extremely professional, in line with international standards, free, transparent and without violence".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_e...

So a very large team of international observer agreed that this election was fair and the results accurate. Why do you claim it wasn’t?

> Thats way too late. You better start at Arab colonization of the region in 17-19th century

You are talking about the Ottoman Turks (not Arabs) who ruled Palestine between 1516 and 1914 (with some pauses in the 19th century).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine#Ottoman_p...

I think your anti-Arab sentiments are showing.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If peopel are properly, as in a proper, fair and unbiased trial, based on equally fair and balanced laws, convicted, sure, you are right. Holding people without charges is defenitely not that. If it were, whatever Russia is doing with people opposing the war Ukraine would totally swell as well. And it isn't. You onw what else kills people, and is illegal by international law? Throwing bombs on civilians. Espesially i…

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> Those who embrace this view fail, however, to explain how it aligns with the inherent right of self-defense

That's quite a rich comment in light of the Dahiya doctrine. It's times like these that I'm glad HN won't let you delete comments for posterity's purpose.

> what scope of military action is necessary to secure the safety of the Israeli population from the Hamas (and Palestinian Islamic Jihad) threat emanating from Gaza?

When you define it like that, literally any military action, up to and including the destruction of all of Israel and it's inhabitants (a-la Samson option) is excusable. The "we have to go to their country and kill them all to protect our way of life" mindset is the fascistic seed of genocide.

Nobody is going to play by that definition. You're delusional if you think the scope of a perceived threat justifies the intensity of an actualized retaliation - it's a misunderstanding of strike warfare. The laser-focus on total war has impaired the IDF's ability to respond to precision threats in a dignified way. It's impossible to argue that Hamas hasn't exploited this obsession, and it's destroying foreign support at an unprecedented rate. You can only massacre so many Qibyas before your government's long-term strategy comes into question.

> Indeed, it is likely that historians will question whether Israel exercised unnecessary restraint up to this point

Here's a thought-exercise for you; how does the world look at America for developing the nuclear bomb? Do you think they love us, for subjugating the world under the ironclad-rule of a nuclear age? Do you think historians criticize America for showing too much restraint in Nagasaki?

Food for thought, may it nourish your starving soul.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#877
post #847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a term for this: ethnic cleansing Actually the term for this is: war Hamas can surrender and release the hostages to end the war. Until then Israel is justified in pursuing their 'complete and utter destruction'

No, the term is ethinic cleansing. In war there are rules regarding civilians, rules Israel ignoring. And no, (in)actions by the enemy do not give the otherside a justification to do whatever they want. Rules and laws still apply during war. I tired so tryong to get that point across to people. And worried what that attitude might mean for the future.

Israel gave civilians weeks to leave areas of fighting and warns them ahead of time before attacking. This is not ethnic cleansing no matter how many times you repeat the phrase.

Presence of civilians does not render an area illegal to attack. Using civilian cover to initiate attacks is a war crime, not wearing uniforms is also a war crime - both things Hamas does. Using civilian buildings for military purposes makes attacking those areas legal and within the rules of war. You don't get to change the definition of words or invent laws of war when convenient to attack Israel.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#878

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genozid and ethinic cleansing are not an act of self defence. That people fail to see that is troublesome. And no, I won't go back to King David and the Romans. The current conflict between Palestinians and Israel can be traced back to right after WW2. That's were the interesting events start. Going back further is not helpful.

That's your choice, but it's just an arbitrary point in time, by which Arabs have airway been slaughtering Jews for generations. You could have just as well choose last week as a starting point.

Pointless to further discuss with you.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#879
post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/AvichayAdraee/status/1756728159158812921 This tweet has many photos of the above journalist participating and commanding a Hamas exercise, I think these are pretty incriminating. https://twitter.com/idfonline/status/1745158775567175764 This tweet contains an Islamic Jihad document listing another journalist as a member

Twitter/X, especially for an issue like this one, is not at all a credible source IMHO. Disinformation and misinformation on Twitter is a cliche; it's overwhelming.

These are photos published by the IDF, not random users on X

even if you don’t trust the IDF, you could easily verify if those are the photos of the same journalist by looking at them.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#880
post #795
post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the US violently cleansed the land of various indigenous peoples, there was no Internet through which stern condemnation could arrive. The Israelis have to do the same but broadcasted to every single person's palm. It's quite unfortunate for them, really. Sometimes you gotta help your little bro out.

I have little care about something that happened 100-300 years ago. I wasnt alive. My opinion has literally 0 bearing over stuff that's happened. What I care about now is that we quit supporting Israel's own holocaust. Just because they had something horrible happen in the 1940's, doesn't mean they get "One Free Holocaust Ticket". Let them fend for themselves. Sanction them. Run battleships in the Mediterranean to br…

The continued existence of Israel in the Middle East is like fire underwater. Without a serious continous injection of energy, it'll die out instantly. Everything I've read hints that the Arabs will wipe them out completely if they don't have ~billions coming in from the US annually.

Look up how Arabs have historically treated Jews living on "their" land, and the various expulsions of Jews from modern Arab states. It paints a GRIM picture of a post-umbilical cord Israel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world

> Traditionally, Jews in the Muslim world ... were subjected to dhimmi status. They were afforded relative security against persecution, provided they did not contest the varying inferior social and legal status imposed on them under Islamic rule.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Musl...

> In 1945, there were between 758,000 and 866,000 Jews living in communities throughout the Arab world. Today, there are fewer than 8,000.

I'm not taking a position on what the US should do in this post, but withdrawing support for Israel is definitely going to lead to horrific violence all the same.

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