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Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

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Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I would ever buy a BTC ETF since it precisely negates what I believe Bitcoin to be useful for Yeah I know what you mean, although one competitive advantage of the fund is it can be invested in a tax-free savings accounts not subject to capital gains tax (I haven't seen a practical way to do the same with the raw commodity).

You can hold raw Bitcoin in a self-directed IRA. You just hold it and do the paperwork. You can hold just about anything in a self-directed IRA, including beanie babies.

Is there an equivalent in Canada?

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The killer use case has existed from day 1: remove the middleman. That is banks, or goverments. That's it. There's literally nothing else to it. Speculating on its value, while possible, has nothing to do with its purpose.

And yet here we are, discussing a Bitcoin ETF, which involves plenty of corporate middlemen and has no benefit to the Bitcoin community besides increasing Bitcoin's speculative value.

And I’m sure plenty of other people were buying and holding in exchanges like Coinbase already, instead of buying bitcoins in direct person-to-person cash transactions like the decentralization advocates imagine they will

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#873
post #332

The strong anti-Bitcoin sentiment on HN is still amusing. It goes way back - 13 years or more. Having read many of these negative comments, I think part of this sentiment boils down to the commenter seeing no point to Bitcoin. Just this thread has examples. It must be more than a little annoying to feel very strongly that Bitcoin is pointless, but to also notice that it's still here. Year after year. If that shoe wer…

> I think part of this sentiment boils down to the commenter seeing no point to Bitcoin. I thought cryptocurrency was an interesting and promising idea. But I got away from it around the time it became clear the entire space was overrun by wall-to-wall scamming . And it's safe to disregard anyone who doesn't acknowledge that. If someone says "Yeah, it's wall-to-wall scamming, and other than that, the main use of it i…

I agree that Bitcoin is that perfect storm of technological and financial obfuscation that's made the ideal air cover for charlatans.

However, organizations contributing to this space are trying to extend the functionality and utility of these technologies. For example, check out Chainlink https://chainlinklabs.com/research,

But if you would like a less self-serving narrative, check out what the WEF https://www.weforum.org/organizations/chainlink/ & SWIFT https://www.swift.com/news-events/press-releases/swift-unloc... think about their decentralized tech.

Other forms of interesting decentralization applications look no further than IPFS & Filecoin. https://protocol.ai/

You're not wrong; there are scams and a lot of snake oil, but don't let that deafen you to what direction thoughtful applied use of the technology can produce.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#874
post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have all my savings stored in bitcoin. I do it because I've spent 100s of hours learning what money really is and can see that bitcoin is the best form of it, certainly the best long term store of value. I also know that the best long term store of value will ultimately be where the world's stored value is moved to.

Are you hoping for it to remain the same or are you hoping for an increase compared to usd? Asking because you mentioned stored. What if you could buy shares with btc? If value just sits there and is not used in a productive way - things companies try to do - you're subscribing to a very static world view. It might make sense if you are close to retirement - where people usually move to stable assets - but generally…

Remain the same value or price?

If it remains the same value its USD price will increase at the rate of devaluation of the dollar which is 7% on average (value halves every decade)

If I wanted to make my bitcoin "productive", I could lend it to businesses and then receive interest on top - so bitcoin would go up in price at 7% and then I'd also receive back 5 to 10% more bitcoin per year.

No other asset will ever come close to this, without taking on risk or extra work. Which is why bitcoin will very likely also go up 2000% in value over the next decade.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#875
post #531

My prediction is that Bitcoin will become fully institutionalized within twenty years, to the point that the “Bitcoin” held by investors are entirely disconnected from the theoretical blockchain. A similar thing happened with stocks. Not so long ago they used to be physical pieces of paper. You could trade shares peer-to-peer and even anonymously by handing over the share certificate to someone in person. For dividen…

Will we get the next steps of gold to gold certificate money to fiat too?

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#876
post #824

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None of them offer the probability of bitcoin. It's the most asymmetrical bet I've ever seen. The only reason it's not already $10M/BTC is that noone understands what it is - many people think they do, but they don't. As someone who has studied the subject for 100s of hours, I haven't come across a single valid argument for why it won't absorb all the stored value in the world over time. The hardest part is just bein…

I'll try: For BTC to absorb all stored value in the world, it would need to be the only currency in the world. That is the only way all assets in the world are bought/sold with BTC. But that alone is, IMO, a non-starter. It assumes that all countries in the world would more or less give up control of their own currency and economy - if BTC is the only currency worth anything, why would anyone own or get paid in anyth…

It does pose an extremely legitimate threat to their power, but there is nothing they can do about it. They can't stop it. They either embrace bitcoin or suffer economic collapse.

The only reason there are so many fist currencies is because no country wants to be using a currency that another is printing for free.

With bitcoin, that's not an issue and countries like El Salvador, Argentina would happily use it as the basis for a currency and thrive because of it. Over time, societies that use the best money win.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can happily regulate on and off ramps, and enforce traceability etc for anything that touches the 'real' economy though, should they wish. But what good is that? All you get is traceability for people with nothing to hide. You can't actually prevent on and off ramps because anybody could go to the black market digital currency dealer (whose operations are conveniently situated near the local drug dealer) and e…

> All you get is traceability for people with nothing to hide Have we officially abandoned the original goal of privacy/anonymity with bitcoin? Privacy isn't only a good thing when you have something to hide. > You can't actually prevent on and off ramps because anybody could go to the black market On and off ramps are generally meant to only include the legal avenues for buying and selling bitcoin. The government ca…

> Have we officially abandoned the original goal of privacy/anonymity with bitcoin? Privacy isn't only a good thing when you have something to hide.

But if you have something to hide and the official on ramps and off ramps don't allow you to hide it, you can just use the black market, so the only people using the official system in that context are the people who believe themselves to be uninteresting to the government. Which naturally excludes nearly all the people the government is legitimately interested in, making the KYC requirements a pointless burden on innocent people.

> On and off ramps are generally meant to only include the legal avenues for buying and selling bitcoin. The government can absolutely regulate those, the black market is a separate concept.

Generally speaking government regulations only work when at least one of the buyer or seller wants the regulations, e.g. you buy your medication from the pharmacy and not a drug dealer because you want the quality controls the government imposes, even if the seller would rather not. So the openly operated pharmacy outcompetes the black market for aspirin.

When both the buyer and the seller have no interest in the rules, neither of them reports the other for violating them and then they're basically unenforceable. Which is hot garbage, because the costs of the rules still fall on the people they weren't meant to constrain, and the vig on the transactions funds other black market activities, and the inability of the parties to resolve disputes through the legal system begets violence etc.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#878
post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that they can never stop you custodying the bitcoin yourself. Bitcoin won't become "quaint" - it will always sit there as the hardest money mankind has ever seen (and likely ever will). If they try and create tokens that don't represent bitcoin i.e. creating them out of thin air, then they will go down in value relative to bitcoin, just as we are seeing with fiat currencies and people will move thei…

When push came to shove, pretty much all money (and assets) dropped hard in value vs stuff that is critically needed. Hardness of money is really only situational. Really hard money does not exist that is why things like productive assets are where wealth goes - not into other non-productive monies. For example, equity is already used as money at times (M&A, salaries).

Bitcoin is a productive asset. I buy it, lend it to a business who can use it as collateral and I get paid back more bitcoin than I lent them, as compensation (i.e. interest)

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#879
post #531

My prediction is that Bitcoin will become fully institutionalized within twenty years, to the point that the “Bitcoin” held by investors are entirely disconnected from the theoretical blockchain. A similar thing happened with stocks. Not so long ago they used to be physical pieces of paper. You could trade shares peer-to-peer and even anonymously by handing over the share certificate to someone in person. For dividen…

> to the point that the “Bitcoin” held by investors are entirely disconnected from the theoretical blockchain

Very much already there. Fiat in, fiat out, with no transactions on the blockchain. Their "Bitcoin" is little more than rows in a private database.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#880
post #787
post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that they can never stop you custodying the bitcoin yourself. Bitcoin won't become "quaint" - it will always sit there as the hardest money mankind has ever seen (and likely ever will). If they try and create tokens that don't represent bitcoin i.e. creating them out of thin air, then they will go down in value relative to bitcoin, just as we are seeing with fiat currencies and people will move thei…

What would prevent any government from passing a law making it illegal to touch cryptocurrencies? Sure, that doesn’t make it impossible to self-custody, but it would surely have some impact on most people‘s willingness to do so.

One government does, another doesn't. The one that doesn't ultimately wins because their people thrive, using a better money.
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