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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#871

Post by g8oz »

proc0 wrote: post #833
wazoox wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when dug out at some point, following a long and painful agony people crushed under collapsed buildings almost always die. Particularly in Gaza where medical supplies are now non-existent. Lots of innocents are dying; there is IMO absolutely no amount of reasoning that can justify it, under any circumstances. It's just wrong. It must stop, period.

Yeah, that's pretty bad, but it lacks the terror and the brutality. Many people survive accidents of that magnitude and recover sooner or later. I cannot imagine being taken hostage, seeing your family members tortured and killed in front of you and dehumanized. I don't think anyone comes back from that.

You obviously have not seen the videos of incinerated children in Gaza.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#872

Post by Animats »

digianarchist wrote: post #865
DevX101 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AIPAC itself is a result of the President Eisenhower and later Robert F Kennedy (DOJ) demanding the American Zionist Council (AZC) register as foreign agents. Because of this, the AZC rebranded to AIPAC with the same leadership and the issue seemed to have fell off the high priority political radar since. Incidentally, the founder of AIPAC, Isaiah Kenen registered twice with the U.S. Department of Justice under the F…

Two questions: 1. Does AIPAC's use of dual-citizens (American-Israelis) allow it to circumvent the Foreign Agent Registration Act? 2. Is there any other analog to AIPAC operating in the United States for a foreign nation?

1. No. It doesn't matter where the agent is from. It matters who the "foreign principal" is.

2. Five China news agencies and Russia Today are registered as foreign agents. There are also over 200 foreign PACs, but they're mostly businesses. The Overseas Friends of the BJP (the ruling party in India) is registered as a foreign agent. That's probably the closest match.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#873

Post by pezezin »

kmeisthax wrote: post #545
sabarn01 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an ocean of injustice in the world and this one issue causes more anger than many that are equally abhorrent.

Every injustice is homomorphic to the Israel-Palestine crisis. Ergo, people will use their opinion about the crisis as a proxy for their own politics. In much of the west[0], you're pro-Israel because fuck Nazis - NEVER AGAIN. In America, you're pro-Israel if you're Republican, pro-Palestine if you're Democrat, or pro-Israel if you're Democrat. If you're anti-colonial, you're pro-Palestine. In Ireland, you're pro-Pal…

> [3] In America we still use "gypsy", which is terribly offensive in Europe

Is it? In Spain we still call them "gitanos", heck, they even call themselves that: https://www.gitanos.org/

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#874

Post by g8oz »

dotancohen wrote: post #721
abusada wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello there, a Palestinian from the west bank here speaking, let me tell you something, our resistance has nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish state, if my brother stole my house and killed my children i will fight him just the same, and you would too and everyone else (I assume). jewish, muslim, christian, vegan.. doesn't matter. Now Hamas does play on the string of religion to get to people, and so does Israel…

> Hello there, a Palestinian from the west bank here speaking, Israeli here, and I'm glad to see you here. > let me tell you something, our resistance has nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish state, if my brother stole my house and killed my children i will fight him just the same, and you would too and everyone else (I assume). jewish, muslim, christian, vegan.. doesn't matter. Makes sense. I happen to agree wit…

Many Israelis seem to live in an alternate world with alternate histories and alternate facts. Read Ilan Pappé to break out of that bubble.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#875

Post by pxc »

dsabanin wrote: post #863
Aunche wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has never been a war in history where one side stops because they killed enough people. War ends when the enemy surrenders. The Japanese killed a few dozen civilians in Pearl Harbor. America killed 10,000x as many during their bombings of Japan. Had they not surrendered, they likely would have killed an order of magnitude more. The only alternative would have been for the US to completely blockade Japan indefin…

Japanese did enough evil through Asia during WW2 to more than deserve that.

Nobody deserves to die of radiation poisoning. There is no neighborhood on Earth in which all families living there deserve to be vaporized.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#876

Post by petra »

rowanseymour wrote: post #536
wk_end wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also the nature of the violence. It's generally acceptable to show shots of bombed-out buildings and the like, or even display injured or dead bodies. The footage we and Israel have from Hamas depicts first-hand murder, rape and torture - all things which are going to violate TOS.

Rape and torture were not featured [1] in the recent propaganda movie Israel screened to select people in the West, so there's no reason to believe such footage exists. 1. https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1729487180630786219

I have heard of footage showing rape , but that it was left out, due to respect for the victims.

In any case there are other evidence for that to happen.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#877

Post by pxc »

woodruffw wrote: post #815
Aunche wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has never been a war in history where one side stops because they killed enough people. War ends when the enemy surrenders. The Japanese killed a few dozen civilians in Pearl Harbor. America killed 10,000x as many during their bombings of Japan. Had they not surrendered, they likely would have killed an order of magnitude more. The only alternative would have been for the US to completely blockade Japan indefin…

By most standards, what the US did to the civilian population of Japan was an atrocity. I don’t have easy answers here. But I think we’ve lost an important piece of the plot here if we can’t look at one terrible human tragedy, and then another, and then ask ourselves whether the first had to beget the second.

This has been a fairly common rhetorical move for defenders of disproportionate Israeli violence, inflicted primarily upon civilians, in recent months. I've seen it done with the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well as the firebombing of Dresden.

On TV in English, which atrocity is used to justify the current and growing civilian death toll in Gaza seems to depend on who the audiences. US audiences are appealed to with comparison to Hiroshima and UK audiences, to Dresden.

It's easy to read it cynically when it's an Israeli official excusing one war crime with another on television. It's stranger and sadder to see it done by an ordinary stranger online.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#878

Post by pxc »

yyyk wrote: post #738
woodruffw wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have nothing to add here, other than to thank you for expressing this so cogently. It’s not always “right” to measure just action in terms of lives saved or lost, but it’s hard for me (and so many other American Jews) to see anything right or just about 10 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli.

Take that logic further. Israel's enemies outnumber it by 10x or more and are more than ruthless enough to sacrifice as many as necessary*. There's no way ever that Israel could avoid having the other side having more casualties. The same would apply to every minority. If your suggested law of war isn't 'majority or ruthless minority, get to do everything they want because they have more causalties', than you need an…

There was lots of criticism of disprortionality in the US' wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The US also made a point not to conduct civilian death counts and they were little reported. But what numbers did exist were absolutely important for those opposed to the war.

Just do a web search restricted from 2001 to 2007 for discussions of the civilian death toll.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#879

Post by ConorSheehan1 »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #834
markdown wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Israel could remove Hamas without injuring any non-combatants I think they would. Surely you jest. How is this attack supposed to remove Hamas? It seems designed to strengthen Hamas, just as Israel has been supporting Hamas since their formation. The existence of Hamas prevents a united Palestinian people while simultaneously giving Israel the excuse to reject a 2-state solution. If Hamas didn't exist, Israel wo…

You seem to ignore the fact that Palestinians have rejected a 2-state solution and have elected hamas themselves.

You seem to ignore the fact that hamas was elected in 2006 and has indefinitely postponed elections since then. Given the demographics most Palestinians weren't even alive when hamas was elected.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#880

Post by Arn_Thor »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #834
markdown wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Israel could remove Hamas without injuring any non-combatants I think they would. Surely you jest. How is this attack supposed to remove Hamas? It seems designed to strengthen Hamas, just as Israel has been supporting Hamas since their formation. The existence of Hamas prevents a united Palestinian people while simultaneously giving Israel the excuse to reject a 2-state solution. If Hamas didn't exist, Israel wo…

You seem to ignore the fact that Palestinians have rejected a 2-state solution and have elected hamas themselves.

Remind me, when was the last time people in Gaza were given a chance to vote?
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