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What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

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Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#871

Post by dijit »

etchalon wrote: post #863
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please, do yourself a favor and perform a very simple litmus test. Ask how many men are willing to date homeless women and vice versa. What's fascinating is how people are trying to avoid talking about the obvious motivator for men not present in women, and how the slow death of that motivator is affecting things. Take a look in the mirror before trying to subtly call someone ignorant, would you?

You are very convinced your 80s stand-up comedy stereotypes are accurate and it's deeply funny.

I'm trying to see the charitable way of interpreting this but all I can see is an intent to emotionally wound someone else. there's absolutely nothing in what you just said that can be considered constructive.

the parent was at least trying to make a reasoned point, even if you don't agree with him.

This is Hacker News not Prime Ministers Questions. We're here for intellectual curiosity, some measure of vulnerability and open discussion.

Calling people bigoted or old fashioned isn't swaying anyone, if anything it will push people away because as soon as someone says "they've got a point there" and there's backlash instead of a rebuttal: you've lost another person.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#872

Post by cscurmudgeon »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #824
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> worry that my kids won’t be diverse enough to be able to get into a decent school or get a good job like I was able to when they’re older That is wildly optimistic. Next they will come for your already taxed wealth and money if you aren’t “diverse” enough. People in the US need to be more aware of similar trajectories in other countries in the past.

You are optimistic. Even countries that had problems with this exact same issue are currently repeating the error by the letter. Case in point Germany. We now have sex quotas, won't take long for racial quotas be established. Shitty and dumb country, didn't learn a lot. And like any totalitarian movement before there is no reasoning possible and will at some point probably derail.

Very well said

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#873

Post by dvngnt_ »

onos wrote: post #691
dvngnt_ wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my assumption is that the left is actually in support for better education in inner cities. i mostly hear about Republicans banning books

Have you also heard of “decolonizing” the libraries?

I haven't.

I have heard more republican outcry in response to Biden's student loan forgiveness

> A recent analysis by the Census Bureau said Black and Hispanic women could benefit the most from the one-time cancellation policy, as both groups hold a disproportionate share of education debt relative to their peers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/09/27/lawsuit-...

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#874

Post by etchalon »

dijit wrote: post #871
etchalon wrote: post #863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are very convinced your 80s stand-up comedy stereotypes are accurate and it's deeply funny.

I'm trying to see the charitable way of interpreting this but all I can see is an intent to emotionally wound someone else. there's absolutely nothing in what you just said that can be considered constructive. the parent was at least trying to make a reasoned point, even if you don't agree with him. This is Hacker News not Prime Ministers Questions. We're here for intellectual curiosity, some measure of vulnerability…

I suggested the parent consider the data shows bias instead of choice and the parent responded with an obviously outdated and generalized stereotype.

There was not reason in the parent's point, and I believe such arguments have no right to be treated as serious.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#875

Post by slt2021 »

ParetoOptimal wrote: post #775
slt2021 wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Still assuming you’re right, and not prejudiced, why is giving historically disadvantaged people a crutch to lean on so bad this is simply not true. Hiring must be all about merit, not handouts for some noble social purpose. Secondly, lowering bar for one race while keeping the same bar other races is blatant racism. It is conveniently called affirmative action, but in reality it is racism against more qualified can…

> this is simply not true. Hiring must be all about merit, Assessing merit is something we still suck at. Implicit bias nearly always plays a part.

op specifically said about hiring unqualified/less qualified people and "let them grow into jobs", which assumes rejecting more qualified candidate (who doesnt need to grow into a job but has has wrong skin color ) so Op denies merit explicitly and prefers racial nepotism.

No wonder DIE initiatives face pushback as they do not make any sense and are plain harmful to all parties involved

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#876

Post by slt2021 »

psd1 wrote: post #753

_sigh_ The common theme I see in all these happy HN contributors getting their panties in a twist over affirmative action is that transactions exist in America that discriminate against white people: for a given promotion, a black person is advanced over a white person who is better qualified. It's like some idiot plugging away at debugging a single query timing out, while the cluster is down. Just take a step back.…

why do you think that growing up in a full family is an advantage?

by the same logic we should cut limbs off healthy people in the name of equity, just because disabled people have it worse.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#877

Post by balls187 »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #648
xboxnolifes wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in some cases, not Asian.

Not sure why this was downvoted. Asians get discriminated against even harder than whites when applying for elite universities.

Certain asians (Chinese and Indians descent), are over represented in elite universities, so yes, students of those origins face more competition, than say students who are Native American (who are very poorly represented at elite schools).

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#878

Post by slt2021 »

runako wrote: post #479
zozbot234 wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your pipeline sucks The pipeline sucks for everyone, we all know that. Let's not pretend that this is just a matter of a single company having substandard processes.

Right, but here we're talking about Microsoft, one of the most valuable/profitable companies on the planet. Microsoft doesn't have to make do with a crappy pipeline. In fact, they have the resources to make it harder for the rest of us to have good pipelines. And again -- I am talking about process smells. Women, Latinos, Black people, etc. are gainfully employed in roles where they ship software. (If you work in tec…

1. Microsoft salaries are on the lower end compared to other FAANGs, this is well known fact.

2. Higher paying firms like goog fb are able to sweep the labor market and get the most of folks from tiny population of well qualified minority candidates. Making pipeline issues worse for everybody else.

3. At this point if you are minority and is qualified - you have no problem getting top tier job and top tier pay relatively easy, especially when compared to asian male population.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#879

Post by balls187 »

prepend wrote: post #812
balls187 wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How I know their mind is simple, I am not-white, and my kid's aren't white. And true, parents do want their kids to succeed in life. But I also worry about how the world will treat my kids, because historically black and brown kids don't get treated well.

So you know your mind. You don’t know the minds of all not-whites. I’m pretty sure all parents worry about how the world will treat their kids. There’s pros and cons to everything. If you’re in the US or Europe, you’re in a very privileged position compared to others in less privileged countries. To imagine that someone who is not-white will know how all not-white parents think is silly. Even within a small demograph…

You're arguing by straw man.

Worrying about going to a good school and getting a good job is a nice worry to have.

Worrying that your kid will be the next Trayvon Martin is the reality that many-non white parents worry about. I understand you won't ever have to worry about your children like in that manner. That is one of the benefits of being white.

And white people can scream as loud as they want about how it's unfair they are being discriminated against, in reality they just don't get to enjoy all the advantages they had in prior years for being white.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#880

Post by topaz0 »

colordrops wrote: post #858
topaz0 wrote: post #842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of what you said was irrelevant to what I was saying. I feel no need to address it.

The discussion is on the socially constructed nature of race. My comments directly address this with specific examples. Your final response is nothing more than "no, you are wrong". Not sure what I was expecting on a public forum, as this topic is sensitive and brings out a lot of deep seated irrationality, gaslighting, and binary thinking in people.

I have no objections to your claim that race is socially constructed. I agree. Where I disagree is in the logical leap that that means it doesn't exist. Your specific examples are irrelevant to this point.

(Added: and for what it's worth, I don't necessarily disagree on the specific examples you give. They are just irrelevant.)

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