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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#871

Post by jeofken »

selcuka wrote: post #364
fishidns wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to make sure everyone has the correct piece of data to think about this. The mandate says that non-Canadian truckers need to be vaccinated to enter the country. The mandate says that Canadian truckers, if they are not vaccinated, are not going to be exempt from the normal border entry measures, which is that they'd need to quarantine on entry unless they are vaccinated. The US has a similar mandate for Cana…

> How do you feel about paying for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated and need care to treat COVID? I'm not anti-vaxxer nor oppose vax mandates; but your question misses the point. I am happy to pay for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated the same way I'm happy to pay for healthcare of smokers with lung cancer. I would still do my best to educate them, though. Negligence or ignorance of others should…

> not anti-vaxxer nor oppose vax mandates

FYI opposing the state forcing you to be vaccinated is included in the definition of “anti-vaxxer”[0].

[0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#872

Post by lwansbrough »

InvertedRhodium wrote: post #859
perfopt wrote: post #849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor were they peaceful in India. In addition to the violence against police a woman in the group was raped. A man was killed brutally. The right to protest ends when it infringes on other's rights to go about their daily life. Occupying highways and roads for months on end is not a peaceful protest. Canadian politicians, including some in the cabinet, supported violent protests in India. Canadian citizens fueled mone…

> Occupying highways and roads for months on end is not a peaceful protest. What is inherently violent in those actions?

Non-peaceful does not imply violence.

Most everyone is willing to tolerate a couple days of protests. Where it gets beyond peaceful is when you’re making a huge amount of noise at all hours of the day for weeks on end. That isn’t peaceful, it’s obviously disruptive to the point of intolerability. It’s abusing our willingness to tolerate protest.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#873

Post by lwansbrough »

dotnet00 wrote: post #716
bregma wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just remember, a self-selected 10% of the population imposing unwanted hardship on the remaining 90% is less of a revolution and more of a tyranny.

The 90% imposing unwanted hardship on the 10% is also easily described as tyranny, unless you're arguing that the interests of minorities don't matter? I should clarify that I don't mean to say that this makes the protest valid, just that the argument that protest is only acceptable if an arbitrary number of people are involved is not all that good.

Ultimately you must ask if you would prefer tyranny of the majority or tyranny of the minority.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#874

Post by disambiguation »

notacoward wrote: post #857
disambiguation wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what you're describing is "tyranny of the majority" and not how democracy works. the minority is retaliating because they feel their rights have been violated. i'm not taking sides and i'm not asking you to, but you're kidding yourself if you think these truckers are a greater existential threat to you and your way of life than your government with its self appointed "emergency" powers.

> not how democracy works. For good or ill, "tyranny of the majority" is exactly how democracy works - and it's only ever "tyranny" to those who don't like the democratic outcome. Did you mean constitutional democracy, perhaps? Most constitutions, definitely including Canada's, enumerate rights that are supposed to be beyond the reach of normal legislation or executive action, but that's the "constitutional" part rat…

Given we're talking about Canada's democracy, constitutional democracy is implied. Thanks anyway for performing the tedium of explaining the differences for our fellow readers.

And respectfully, no I'm unable to take sides because I don't have skin in the game.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#875

Post by mdoms »

slothtrop wrote: post #810
anonporridge wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to categorize protestors as "domestic terroists", despite having not done any extreme violent actions, as the Canadian government seems to be doing here.

The govt didn't coin that, the public did, by virtue that protesters are terrorizing the residents. Harassment, 100+db horns at night, vandalization, etc.

A common misconception is that anyone who terrorises someone is a terrorist. It's an understandable mistake but it's wrong. Terrorism has quite a specific definition.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#876

Post by JamisonM »

_-david-_ wrote: post #833
JamisonM wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civil disobedience as I support it is a non-violent action. A lot of people cite these protestors as "non-violent" but there have been many incidences of protestors attacking or intimidating residents as well as intimidating the police to resist enforcement actions so I don't regard the current occupation in Ottawa as meeting that threshold. I think that anyone following closely would have to concede that police cond…

Can you name a protest of this size that hasn't had a little bit of violence?

The funny thing about the occupation of Ottawa is that it is very small! There have been many protests on parliment hill itself with ten times the headcount without incident.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/photos-climate-strike-...

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#877

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

Why are so many Americans obsessed about Canadian politics all of a sudden? The comments here are mostly non-Canadian, and are not representative of the current general sentiment in Canada.

While invocation of the Emergencies Act is always concerning, it's pretty clearly warranted here. There's always chance for abuse, but Trudeau's minority government is on thin ice and if they cross any lines they're as good as gone.

I can only imagine the chaos that would unfold if this was happening in Washington, D.C., but it's not. I know some outraged Canadians who support the protests/blockades, but most of them are either extreme right wing (a comically small population compared to USA) or heavily biased through being directly impacted by restrictions (like the travel industry).

The vast majority of my friends, family, colleagues, strangers on the street, business owners I interact with, lawyers, CEOs, investors, healthcare workers, waiters, bartenders, bus drivers, teachers... are all in strong support of putting an end to the disruption, and in favour of vaccine passports, mask mandates, gathering restrictions, etc. to protect public health.

Compared to the USA, Canadians care much more about what's best for the collective whole than about personal freedoms. This is simply a case of a small minority causing problems for the majority, amplified by the fact that the USA leans towards supporting the protestors.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#879

Post by _3u10 »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #877

Why are so many Americans obsessed about Canadian politics all of a sudden? The comments here are mostly non-Canadian, and are not representative of the current general sentiment in Canada. While invocation of the Emergencies Act is always concerning, it's pretty clearly warranted here. There's always chance for abuse, but Trudeau's minority government is on thin ice and if they cross any lines they're as good as gon…

It’s not a small minority, it’s more people than voted for Trudeau’s govt.

In Canada we call that a plurality. As for wether it’s warranted and 8 of 10 premiers are against its invocation in their provinces.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#880

Post by JamisonM »

inter_netuser wrote: post #798
JamisonM wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current government of Canada was very recently elected in an election that was mostly about the pandemic response and mandates in particular, the notion that this represents some undermining of the democratic process is a bit of a stretch.

Liberals didn’t get the majority mandate. They are a minority govt that lost seats in the election. Rather weak mandate.

Ask NDP voters what they think! Bloc too! It is a minority parliament, if the position of the government was not well supported the government would have fallen..

This is not some pre-covid majority exploiting an old mandate like the Ford or Kenney provincial governments, yours is a very weak argument.

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