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A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

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Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#871

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Sodman wrote: post #663
commandlinefan wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> put in more hours I'm skeptical of unionization in tech, but the one thing I can imagine unions would fix is the constant unpaid overtime that's associate with tech jobs. In a union situation, you'd be paid more if you were working more hours period, rather than hoping somebody would notice and give you a pay raise at some indeterminate time in the future.

It's not a huge stretch to imagine the following scenario play out though: 1. Tech workers unionize, negotiate with employer that any work > 40 hours / week get paid overtime. 2. The company now has two choices: A) Pay their employees more than their competitors for the same work. Or B) Don't authorize any overtime. 3. In scenario A, they're either running at (much) higher cost than their competitors, and thus a disa…

Why is it harder to fire people that don't meet performance standards of they're in a union? Which union members are striking to support poorly performing colleagues aren't union members and bosses aligned here - in general people don't want to carry their colleagues (if they're performing badly because they're lazy/incapable)?

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#872

Post by astura »

sjg007 wrote: post #546
ignoramous wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster. Yeah, a bizarre line of reasoning. Footballers first unionized in 1907 and haven't looked back since. Today, your average footballer (plying their trade in the upper tiers of English football) makes more in a month than most tech engineers make in a year (g…

In America, baseball unionization was what drove higher salaries.

Also the minor leagues aren't unionized and they make poverty wages.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/baseball-broshu...

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#873

Post by snidane »

Coincidentally I was just watching these Yale lectures which touch on economical history of unions in the 20th century. Might be of interest to HN readers.

https://youtu.be/q53DF6ySOZg - The Resurgent Right in the West

https://youtu.be/T3-VlQu3iRM - Reorienting the Left: New Democrats, New Labour and Europe's Social Democrats

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#874

Post by Apocryphon »

joshuamorton wrote: post #823
Apocryphon wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are the people behind the Google Graveyard, the company's awful track record on UX and product design, and its core business strategy of making you, the user, the product through data monetization?

That's a bit of a reach.

I'm saying that those are major customer-facing reasons for why Google is seen as not good these days, not inside baseball culture wars that could be attributable to a "tiny minority of sanctimonious blowhards".

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#875

Post by runawaybottle »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #806
runawaybottle wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most union power comes from solidarity. If the Google people feel they don’t need unions, then all other lower unions are weaker. The power comes from the industry wide union. People at small startups can stand up for something because even the Google people stand up for it. Otherwise we’re divided and carry out the dog eat dog world. Edit: To all the skeptics, look, out of all the thousands of tech companies, how bu…

Why would you even want to try it? Have you personally been abused in some way that you think a union would have prevented?

Yes. I’ve worked at places that don’t give a 401k, only 2-3 days off including the federal holidays, I’ve worked at places that don’t extend any benefits to part-time workers that reach into the 30 hour range (multi year workers), I’m pretty sure I know full time workers that don’t get health insurance at some of these places, I’ve seen corporations relegate workers to temp status via actual legislation (Uber/lyft), I read the history of human-kind of labor abuse. And this is what I’ve seen as a ‘knowledge’ worker, and was raised by blue collar workers that have seen much more.

I wanted to be civil, but I just have to ask, are you fucking stupid or something?

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#877

Post by diebeforei485 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #861
pwned1 wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the cart before the horse. Tell me I'm signing up for something that I have no idea how it will turn out, and then present me with a take it or leave it contract months later. And I'm stuck.

I (from the UK) don't understand: you don't have to join a union. Keep your current contract and don't have a say in Union representation and negotiation, if that's what you want. It's 'take greater combined power against the corporation you work for' (and in things like representation of your industry before government) or stand on your own as you do now. I don't understand how it's possible to lose? You can even wi…

This is not how most unions in America work. Usually the entire workforce is represented by (and pays dues to) the same union. Today's Google/Alphabet thing may be an exception to this.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#878

Post by ksenzee »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #778
tmpz22 wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think the software industry will be like 20 years from now? Do you think the cushy salaries and relative lack of gate keeping will stay around? I sure as hell don't. Unionize now, even if you earn a little less, while you have the most bargaining power, so that later you don't have to fight through pinkerton detectives just to get a seat at the table. There's a reason companies like Google suppress initia…

> There's a reason companies like Google suppress initiatives to form unions, and build strong zeitgeists within their employee base that unionization is bad. If unionization is so bad why do companies spend so much money breaking it up? If something was bad, why would you take the existence of opposition to it as evidence of it being good? Suppose unionization was bad for both employers and employees. You would cert…

If unionization were bad for employees, I'd expect the employers to be able to make that case persuasively. If they don't, I assume there's not much of a case to be made.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#880

Post by rhacker »

objclxt wrote: post #38

When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…

I see that time and again - people lump ALL unions in with the WORST unions for some reason. It's like any union that's had some success isn't really in the news.
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