Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#871

Post by kalleboo » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 9:52 AM UTC

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #715

fnord123 wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does Linux give you that macOS doesn’t? perf, case sensitive file systems, non stupid alt-tab behaviour, strace, pstack, gdb (these don't seem to work without sacrificing animals), gnome-shell (better than finder by a long way, imo). I've got a mac. I don't install programs except for things through brew. It's basically shitty linux with outlook.

I was trying to work with some students with Swift and the Mac character encoding ending up causing no end of problems.

> the Mac character encoding

You mean UTF-8?

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#872

Post by FabHK » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 9:52 AM UTC

fnord123 wrote: post #862

scottmf wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alt-tab behavior is more of a preference thing. >It's basically shitty linux with outlook. Linux is shitty Linux. Except on the server. (IMO, of course).

I can accept that alt-tab is a preference if you want to use alt-tab and alt-`. It's heresy to prefer alt-`, but whatever -the vim-spaces-only(but automated code formatters are best and I dont care what they use)-alt-tabbers will eventually win out. But on multiple desktops if you alt-tab to the previous application again, it only brings up the application windows in the current screen instead of bringing you to the…

I find separate inter-app cycling (cmd-tab) and intra-app cycling (cmd-`) much superior, faster, giving you better control.

However, agreed that on a Mac with multiple "spaces" it's completely broken.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#873

Post by knowThySelfx » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:00 AM UTC

sreque wrote: post #433

mark_l_watson wrote: post #229

This might just be a bargaining move on Apple’s part, but I don’t think so. I think that long term they are much better off controlling their entire hardware stack. I wouldn’t be surprised to even see them make their own display screens. As an Apple customer, I like this idea also. For 20 years, I used to be a desktop Linux fanatic and later became a fan of Android. In the last few years, I have switched to using all…

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

Maybe they also have an unpublicized reason to build their own - the backdoors on Intel/AMD/Qualcom/IBM chips. But building their own isn't a guarantee that they won't put one for "concerned" parties.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#874

Post by FabHK » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:05 AM UTC

sreque wrote: post #462

Myrmornis wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What apple software do you need to use? Sure, it's annoying not having the GNU command-line utilities. But `brew install coreutils` basically fixes that for me. I admit I don't work heavily with compiled languages on macOS so I can't comment on technical aspects of that. iTerm2 is not inferior to linux terminal emulators. The Apple laptops are quite obviously the best hardware experience out there. I mean obviously i…

I've heard it said that the greatest minds of our generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. However, I feel like the greatest minds of our generation are spent trying to figure out how to enable people to build Linux software on OSX. Whether it is: * a convoluted process involving Vagrant, Docker, or both, because you depend on one or more pieces of software that don't run at all on OSX, including D…

The macOS system shell, python, compiler etc. are out of date, and out of your control. They're good enough for basic tinkering. However, as soon as you develop on a Mac professionally, you should create your own dev environments and stack independent of the macOS maintained one, starting with brew for example.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#875

Post by FabHK » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:10 AM UTC

saas_co_de wrote: post #475

sreque wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

> in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst It is almost absurdly bad. The only OS that still hangs, freezes, and crashes regularly. It is like Windows 98 quality wise and seems to get worse instead of better. The whole UX is also insane. Every feature is hidden behind some obscure keyboard shortcut that you have to google or you just get used to working with this useless toy os. The t…

> some obscure keyboard shortcut

FWIW, according to the old Human Interface Guidelines basically everything was supposed to be discoverable via menus, and then has the keyboard shortcut right there in the menu.

The keyboard shortcut System Preference pane lists additional keyboard shortcuts, and lets you easily change them system wide. But yes, granted, searching online reveals quite a few more shortcuts.

I'm just wondering how Windows or Linux are better in that regard in any way??

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#876

Post by asaph » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:19 AM UTC

nunez wrote: post #805

stiGGG wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my second to last company (a web development shop), they had originally the policy that a new developers can choose if he want either a mac, linux or windows machine. When i arrived there it was 75% mac and the rest used linux, not even one had made the choice for windows. After a while some new guys get hired and one of them wanted to use windows. We found out immediately, that this caused a lot of problems, beca…

I would have been pretty upset with that. Unless you're writing machine-native code, development environments should work on anything, especially if they run on VMs deployed by Vagrant.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. If no one is testing the build on platform X, no one should be surprised if it doesn't "just work" on platform X.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#877

Post by skate22 » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:40 AM UTC

nunez wrote: post #809

sreque wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

Couldn't agree more. Finder is garbage compared to Windows Explorer. OS hotkey navigation is much better on Windows and GNOME/KDE/Fluxbox/xmonad. (I actually miss using xmonad; it was soooo good at this.) Office applications (still very real in a lot of environments) are mostly awful on the Mac. iTerm2 is fine, but I prefer PuTTY. Starting applications by their binary name with WIN + R is better (for me) than trying…

'open -a appname.app'

Is what i generally use to open applications. I never use spotlight

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#878

Post by eptcyka » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:47 AM UTC

voltagex_ wrote: post #582

stiGGG wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my second to last company (a web development shop), they had originally the policy that a new developers can choose if he want either a mac, linux or windows machine. When i arrived there it was 75% mac and the rest used linux, not even one had made the choice for windows. After a while some new guys get hired and one of them wanted to use windows. We found out immediately, that this caused a lot of problems, beca…

I guess from a business point of view it makes sense, but I really get frustrated when I find an open source project that's completely unbuildable on Windows. Maybe the developer in question would have been better using a manually created VM or WSL?

Now, take this with a grain of salt, as I'm no open source maintainer, and I only rarely use Windows, and even then for development. Up until very recently, to get real developer tools that are supported by Microsoft one had to buy visual studio. VS2017 has a community edition that's usable for open source projects.

Not to mention, the windows environment is completely different to linux and OSX. Until x64, they had a different calling convention. On OSX and linux, also until recently, I could use the same compiler for both platforms and still be supported by the platform vendor.

All of these non-trivial differences make it a lot more resource-intensive to support a codebase on windows that already runs on Linux and OSX. Asides from my work VMs, I don't even have a windows device that I could use for development. So to me, it's no surprise that most open source projects don't build on Windows.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#879

Post by vvillena » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:53 AM UTC

SiVal wrote: post #846

Synaesthesia wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mac environment takes some getting used to, it took me years to learn all the little details, like if you select a bunch of folders and double-click, it will open all of them. To close them all, option-click the close button. I do find Finder to be inferior to explorer in almost every way. That tree pane on the left is too useful.

I'm far more of a Mac user, but I use Windows, too, and I agree that the Finder is quite inferior to Win Explorer. The simplest, most obvious things, such as having 2 side-by-side trees for file organization, or right-click on anything and create a new folder there--things that are easy and obvious--are NEVER going to come to Finder, which occasionally adds trivial eye candy such as "album flow" views or colored "tag…

On OSX you can create a new folder with Command+Option+N. As for the side-by-side trees, I don't understand what you mean, I usually have 2 Finder windows open, then drag and drop as needed.

When I transitioned from Windows to Mac, 13 years ago, I needed some adaptation time, especially with Finder, but in the end I found it powerful. The main issue coming from Windows Explorer is that basic Explorer workflows such as copypasting don't have a Finder equivalent.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#880

Post by vvillena » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 11:00 AM UTC

Milner08 wrote: post #839

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could agree. Half of the time I spent on my last linux laptop was spent frustratingly trying to get things to work. The screen font was too small for some stuff, too big for others. It didn't wake up from sleep properly. sometimes it didn't GO to sleep properly. It was death by a thousand cuts.

This has been my experience too. I love Linux, but its just too buggy (And I had all these issues on a ThinkPad that was marked as 'Linux Ready'). It really does give me a nice environment for development but the lost hours and days to fixing problems made it a total time sink. MacOS on the other hand has all the tools I need and works incredibly well. I also cannot stand Windows, its a total mess and drives me mad.…

As a counterpoint, I installed Arch Linux on a Lenovo gaming laptop and I'm delighted with the result. Arch being Arch, I had to configure lots of things manually, but there are no bugs to speak of. Maybe you mean weird behavior instead of bugs? That would make more sense.