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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#871

Post by scarface74 »

leereeves wrote: post #867
scarface74 wrote: post #857

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between “speaking against globalizarion” and increasing jobs in America. How do you propose we decrease globalization? Impose tariffs, cause a trade war, and increase prices for everyone? There is a company called Softwear trying to brIng clothe manufacturing back to the US. But they plan to automate everything and hire a very few engineers. How does that help the “working class”? The ship on gl…

"RNC Republicans" still believe in globalization. Republican voters have been opposed to globalization for a long time but until Trump they had few voting choices that reflected that. And the ship hasn't sailed on globalization. China is bringing protectionism back whatever we do. Will protectionism raise prices? On manufactured goods, perhaps. But manufactured goods are a small portion of our expenses compared to re…

So in other words we should all pay a subsidy to help the "working class"? That's exactly what a tariff is.

I thought conservatives were against forcing people to pay taxes and "big government" and we should let the free market decide - or do they just feel that way about health care?

All wages won't rise because of manufacturing jobs. Just those for manufacturing. It's basically "redistributing" money from those who aren't in the manufacturing industry to those who are. I also thought that conservatives were against "redistribution", or are they for it when it helps "working class Middle America"?

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#872

Post by anigbrowl »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #584
anigbrowl wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been here since the dot com boom in the 1990s I have to disagree. Large firms headquartering in SF is a relatively new thing, but there were plenty of small firms attracted by VC money but which didn't come out of the Stanford orbit that has shaped SV.

I've been here since the 90s as well, and I can't think of a single major company that came out of SF until recently. Not enough to cause a huge shift in where people worked.

...that's why I specifically cited small firms?

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#873

Post by scarface74 »

leereeves wrote: post #866
scarface74 wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not what I asked. Can you find studies where equally qualified white men were denied opportunities, controlling for all other variables suffered harm because of their color or gender? I can post studies where the opposite has happened in housing, hiring, and the criminal justice system.

Who would do or fund such a study? Women outnumber men in college by 50%, and almost nobody sees a problem with that. Men vastly outnumber women among the homeless, prisoners, accidental deaths, etc, and nobody cares about that either. Nobody in power cares enough about less fortunate men to support any studies that might show what obstacles they face.

So now without any studies showing a casualty between less men being in the workforce or fewer going to college being caused by some sort of societal discrimination, we are suppose to believe you? None of the conservative think tanks are willing to do a study?

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#874

Post by scarface74 »

leereeves wrote: post #869
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it around a fraction of 1%? http://time.com/4064665/women-college-degree/

That's because of the Baby Boomers. Among people in college now, nearly 60% of students/graduates are women. If nothing is done to increase male enrollment, the statistic you quoted (% of population with college degrees) will change to match this inequality fairly quickly.

Again what is suppose to "be done"? Government intervention? Affirmative Action for the oppressed male? Whatever happened to the Reaganesque "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" and "rugged individuslism"? Conservatives have been telling minority and women that for years.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#875

Post by dragonwriter »

leereeves wrote: post #866
scarface74 wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not what I asked. Can you find studies where equally qualified white men were denied opportunities, controlling for all other variables suffered harm because of their color or gender? I can post studies where the opposite has happened in housing, hiring, and the criminal justice system.

Who would do or fund such a study? Women outnumber men in college by 50%, and almost nobody sees a problem with that. Men vastly outnumber women among the homeless, prisoners, accidental deaths, etc, and nobody cares about that either. Nobody in power cares enough about less fortunate men to support any studies that might show what obstacles they face.

> Women outnumber men in college by 50%

56% to 44% as of this past fall, and projected to reach 57% to 43% by 2026. [0] That's a little over 25%, not 50%.

> almost nobody sees a problem with that.

Lots of people see it as a symptom of a major problem.[0, again]

> Men vastly outnumber women among the homeless

This is, IIRC, basically entirely because virtually the entire set of homeless veterans is male, and homeless veterans are a full third of the homeless. Again, homeless among veterans (which, again, is basically the entire source of the overrepresentation of men among the homeless) is widely perceived as a serious problem.

> prisoners

Well, white people might not care about this; but the imprisonment of black men and what it has done to the black community has been an intense concern of that community.

[0] https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-me...

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#876

Post by leereeves »

scarface74 wrote: post #874
leereeves wrote: post #869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because of the Baby Boomers. Among people in college now, nearly 60% of students/graduates are women. If nothing is done to increase male enrollment, the statistic you quoted (% of population with college degrees) will change to match this inequality fairly quickly.

Again what is suppose to "be done"? Government intervention? Affirmative Action for the oppressed male? Whatever happened to the Reaganesque "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" and "rugged individuslism"? Conservatives have been telling minority and women that for years.

Apparently I've been censored and rate-limited, so I can't continue this discussion.

Why not? Leftists want equality of outcome, right? Why does that exclude college enrollment, unemployment, dangerous work, etc?

Response to below: Would people on HN really be all over these studies? Or would they be censored as I have been?

And I just posted a study for you in our other comment chain, since you demand it so persistently. I hope you're reading these edits...

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#877

Post by dragonwriter »

leereeves wrote: post #876
scarface74 wrote: post #874

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again what is suppose to "be done"? Government intervention? Affirmative Action for the oppressed male? Whatever happened to the Reaganesque "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" and "rugged individuslism"? Conservatives have been telling minority and women that for years.

Apparently I've been censored and rate-limited, so I can't continue this discussion. Why not? Leftists want equality of outcome, right? Why does that exclude college enrollment, unemployment, dangerous work, etc? Response to below: Would people on HN really be all over these studies? Or would they be censored as I have been? And I just posted a study for you in our other comment chain, since you demand it so persiste…

> Leftists want equality of outcome, right?

Not really, no.

Leftists are, however, less inclined than those on the opposite side of the political spectrum to dismiss wide discrepancies in outcome as being results of differences in free uncoerced choices rather than inequality of opportunity (which the right didn't even accept as a value until the left made it popular enough that they invented the "opportunity vs. outcome" argument to adopt in name while dismissing it in substance).

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#878

Post by scarface74 »

leereeves wrote: post #876
scarface74 wrote: post #874

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again what is suppose to "be done"? Government intervention? Affirmative Action for the oppressed male? Whatever happened to the Reaganesque "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" and "rugged individuslism"? Conservatives have been telling minority and women that for years.

Apparently I've been censored and rate-limited, so I can't continue this discussion. Why not? Leftists want equality of outcome, right? Why does that exclude college enrollment, unemployment, dangerous work, etc? Response to below: Would people on HN really be all over these studies? Or would they be censored as I have been? And I just posted a study for you in our other comment chain, since you demand it so persiste…

I can't tell, are you now arguing that the "liberal agenda" was right all along? If so, why are you posting the opposite?

We've been going back and forth for days but you still haven't posted any latitudinal studies to back your claims of the oppression of the White Male. There are plenty of conservative think tanks that would have been all over studies that showed such data if it existed.

I would think that HN being full of engineers and other left brain types would actually take the time to read such studies and give them a fair shot.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#879

Post by leereeves »

scarface74 wrote: post #871
leereeves wrote: post #867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"RNC Republicans" still believe in globalization. Republican voters have been opposed to globalization for a long time but until Trump they had few voting choices that reflected that. And the ship hasn't sailed on globalization. China is bringing protectionism back whatever we do. Will protectionism raise prices? On manufactured goods, perhaps. But manufactured goods are a small portion of our expenses compared to re…

So in other words we should all pay a subsidy to help the "working class"? That's exactly what a tariff is. I thought conservatives were against forcing people to pay taxes and "big government" and we should let the free market decide - or do they just feel that way about health care? All wages won't rise because of manufacturing jobs. Just those for manufacturing. It's basically "redistributing" money from those who…

I'd love to continue this discussion but apparently I've been rate-limited for some reason, and suddenly I'm only allowed one post every 2 hours. I'll close with this:

We already pay subsidies for all kinds of things. Why not pay one to help the working class?

----

Response to below: I do think any injustice is immoral but subsidies aren't injustice. We pay lots of subsidies. I never said subsidies are immoral.

And don't confuse manufacturing with "rural America". There are lots of working class people in the cities who once found employment in manufacturing. Farm subsidies do nothing for them.

And if you only want to read a study (and will consider no other facts) here's a study showing men receive much longer prison sentences than women for the same crime:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002

----

> What should we "believe" other than studies?

Statistics?

Like the statistics on male victims of domestic violence vs the legal protections and shelters available to men.

Or the statistics on boys vs girls expelled from preschool, boys medicated, the number of male vs female teachers, etc.

And have you read that study yet? You seemed so insistent to read a study, I thought you might have some comments about it.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#880

Post by scarface74 »

leereeves wrote: post #879
scarface74 wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in other words we should all pay a subsidy to help the "working class"? That's exactly what a tariff is. I thought conservatives were against forcing people to pay taxes and "big government" and we should let the free market decide - or do they just feel that way about health care? All wages won't rise because of manufacturing jobs. Just those for manufacturing. It's basically "redistributing" money from those who…

I'd love to continue this discussion but apparently I've been rate-limited for some reason, and suddenly I'm only allowed one post every 2 hours. I'll close with this: We already pay subsidies for all kinds of things. Why not pay one to help the working class? ---- Response to below: I do think any injustice is immoral but subsidies aren't injustice. We pay lots of subsidies. I never said subsidies are immoral. And d…

You just argued the opposite side earlier basically implying any injustice is immoral. We pay subsidies to rural America in the form of farm subsidies already.

But all you have to do is post a study showing statistical evidence of discrimination against the White Male and I promise I'll read it with an open mind. I have somewhat of a background in statistics and economics and I enjoy reading about those subjects.

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